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If a person is Transgender, they were born that way. Why would anyone disregard a life, an identity, a gender that was finally lived, by not recognizing someone in their death?

Is their authentic identity, the one they fought hard for and risked everything for to be stolen from that person for a lie in their time of death, just for the comfort of the ignorant or close-minded?

CS60 7 Aug 21
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2

I really don't like the "born this way" argument. This isn't a birth defect any more than having blue eyes is a birth defect. It's just another state of the human condition that needs to stop being stigmatised by religion, and its mantra of "Repress. Conform. Marry. Breed."

Theorise all you want about why people are transgender. If we genuinely believe there's nothing wrong with being transgender, then why would there be anything wrong with choosing to be transgender? (In other words, not out of some suicide inciting dysphoric experience, but just because it makes us happier than we otherwise would be, and doesn't harm anyone else in the process.)

And if we accept that if it can be a choice, it's a valid one, why would we need to fall back on an apology? One that basically says "I'm really sorry I'm like this. I've tried so hard to be the person you want me to be, but I just can't. Please don't hate me. It's nature's fault, not mine."

Whether I was born this way or chose to be this way is irrelevant. I am this way. There's nothing unacceptable to shameful about be being this way.

The same goes for being gay or bisexual.

I agree there is nothing shameful about being trans, gay, queer, bi, poly, pan or some combination of the those. The shame or unacceptability is mainly stems from most church ignorance and unwillingness to learn.
For me there was no choice - I was and am transgender. I didn’t choose to transition, I chose to live, and the only way I could live and be happy was to transition.

For me, there was a choice. Continue to repress, or allow myself to be who I wanted to be. I never suffered from severe dysphoria. There's was no "I have to do this, because I can't face life if I don't." I was always reasonably content living as a man, I'm just much happier living as a woman. And in a world where there's nothing wrong with that outside of the minds of bigots, I felt free to make that choice.

Ultimately, we all face that choice of repressing and confirming, or allowing ourselves to be free. It's just the strength of the drives that vary from person to person. For many, the need to conform 'for an easy life' outweighs the need to be authentic. And they're the ones that continue to repress and stay in their closets.

I absolutely agree with your point about choice being good and it being ours to make. But the point of theorizing---and researching to test those theories, is to seek greater understanding. We "should" never have to justify ourselves, but unfortunately, socio-politically, we often find that battle raging.
We have the right to choose how we live. We also will be emotionally healtheir if we deepen our understanding for WHY we make the choices we do. Also, some choices are made because of outside or social influences that are not actually healthy for us. Choice is not simply the product of us being wholy rational, well-informed actors. Seeking to understand the "why" of things in life is generally a good thing.

@MikeInBatonRouge I agree that there's no harm in understanding why people are different. What bothers me is the excessive reliance of some in the LGBT community on the 'born this way' argument, basically playing as though they have no control over their destiny. Like anyone who is same sex attracted or questioning their own gender, they had the choice to repress or embrace it. The drive to embrace may be stronger than the drive to repress in some, and indeed I've often said that I think people come out of their closets when their need to be their authentic selves is stronger than their fear of the worst case scenario if they reveal who that person is.

Even if people are 'born this way', there are plenty who choose to repress it and follow the prescribed path of cisgender heterosexuality that society, and especially religion, expects of them. I appreciate that some people become extremely distraught if they can't present their true selves to the world, but "I had no choice" has become so ingrained in the trans narrative that it tends to invalidate people who perhaps did have a choice, but who felt that deviating from the cishetero path was the best choice for them. People like me.

The "I had no choice" narrative is what's behind transmedicalism: trans people who refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of anyone trans who doesn't meet their criteria for dysphoria and commitment to surgery. And the transmedicalists are our own TERFs. Even more hurtful, because the nastiness comes from within the trans community.

For the record, I am not making any accusations of transmedicalism towards anyone in this discussion.

@NicoleCadmium well said!

2

You can bet religion is behind it all. Ironic that love and empathy and compassion were the cornerstones of Jesus' teachings, yet those principles are trampled on by jugmental fundamentalists, who traded in grace-based faith in exchange for fear-based religion.

Yeah, religion is behind almost all of it, but there are a few non-religious folks who just won’t accept trans-people. And I agree about Jesus and the fundies. Christian behavior has prejudiced me against Christians; my bad and I’m working on it.

3

That sounds like the family is nuts?

Disregarding the life lived in death is just beyond wrong. I suspect a religious factor if this happens.

Though there are closed minded folks of all walks of life.

I can't imagine attending a funeral where they misgendered the person? (Well I can - but I think I'd stand up and say "I think you go the pronouns WRONG!". I'm just that person.

RavenCT Level 9 Aug 21, 2019

Unfortunately, some families never accept the trans person’s identity and will bury them as the wrong gender. It is willful disrespect and ignorance usually based on religion.

@CS60 I can imagine - but I'm so glad my family isn't one of them.

We got the pronouns wrong for about a year - then we straightened ourselves out! (Pronouns take longer to switch out than the name for some reason - especially if the person is older).

And we were accepting from day one. I can't imagine misgendering someone in death. It's incredibly disrespectful to the life they live.

@RavenCT You are lucky. I was and am lucky, with most of my family. But there are a couple of holy rollers. I’m going put specifics in my will.

I'd say it too !

@CS60 I think they knew they'd have to deal with me in constant harping mode if they didn't get in line - but they were pretty darn accepting once they could ask their questions and have them answered.
It's always a bit of tilt to the "family story" while they get it straight - but it works out just fine if you love each other.

1

Here here!!!

Kafirah Level 8 Aug 21, 2019
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