Iām With Progressives Against Impeachment
First off, other than morals, there has been no legal justification brought forth to impeach, morals don't apply. Second, just about anything being directed towards Trump you can find in local state and national politicians over and over again. Feel free to throw something at me. Third, relative to my last statement, these people are all playing within the same system, no one any better than the other. They all have skeletons in closets somewhere. Give the new comers time and they most likely will also. Forth, no one in this game made any attempt to stop Trump from achieving his position. I spent over a year posting history of his family and his dirty deals in NY and NJ starting in 2015. He has raped the people via the tax system in those states for cheap properties, personal projects, destroying historical land marks in one case, via law suits for work completed put a number of family businesses down refusing to pay for their services. While generously giving campaign donations to politicians of interest who would make decisions on these issues. If the media were to have raised all the history and shenanigans during the election cycle it might have turned some of his supporters away knowing how he and his fore family have treated the likes of the working class and tax payers in those states. Didn't hear a god dam thing about that shit while giving him billions in free air time for over a year though, huh? ummm, Clinton was a cricket also! Let that one sink in for a moment. No, they were more than willing to keep running with the fascist nationalism growth forming stronger with each rally though. Making sure to pick just the right words and rhetoric to inflame his supporters rather than provide factual information to inform the public. And everyone in the game played this out right through his administration nominee's. I mean swamp, new swamp.
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.There could be a case made against impeachment, but I don't think you have made one. I think the calls for impeachment are premature, but to address your points: 1) If there is a case made for impeachment it won't be about personal morals. That wasn't even true for Clinton, Nixon, or Andrew Johnson. It would be about abuse of power, obstruction of justice, conspiracy to influence the election, perjury, etc. And if we never do anything to stop that, we can kiss what's left of our democracy goodbye. 2) You are ignoring the importance of scale as those are not the leader of our nation and the Free World. Corruption on a lesser scale does not justify corruption on a greater scale. But that notwithstanding, so what? Maybe they should be thrown out of office, too. Should we really just give up and declare all corruption to be OK? 3) The fact that other people are corrupt and culpable (who BTW are not the President and not as important) doesn't make the guilty innocent? What if we let a murderer off because other people murder. What if we let thieves off because other people steal? Etc. Try telling a cop that it makes no sense to give you a speeding ticket because other people speed. You can't justify corruption and evil with the excuse that other people are corrupt and evil. If that makes it OK we might as well throw out all our laws. What kind of a world would that be? 4) This simply is not true. There was a very extensive Stop Trump movement. It just failed. The fault lies with the American public who voted for Trump anyway, not those who tried to stop him and failed.
Heraclitus
Level 8
Dec 12, 2018
0
That's why I said morals don't apply.
Where do we go on abuse of power though? He seems to be getting away with setting a new standard. As Bush did. Pelosi, as with Bush, has already set a tone there will be an attempt to work with him. I take that as impeachment off the table again. So if they are changing the rules as they go, you're right, we have no democracy. I've been to that point and it's a large part of my argument here.
They are how ever leaders. Whether it be local state or national they are to lead over us according to the laws we hire them to moderate and modify as times change. I just don't see us as being the one's actually doing the hiring anymore. This goes further than just nation and world? States have their own laws and constitutions? Their own congress and senate? We pick our leaders in those states. Now you're on my path. They need to be thrown out of power! Because corruption, as above with with rules, is being changed slowly from cycle to cycle. I can start with the Reagan administration on murder. And end at Trump. From Central America to Syria. And every president between. They're already getting away with it! I'd call what the banks, wall street, and corporations did in 2008 a theft.
You're talking about tribal partisan divide going to the streets? While I'm challenging our representatives and media who have the power to inform. Did they take what the streets and people like myself were offering to confront the rise of Trump? The rally protest were played by the media as party divide, lacking any substance of reason they were occurring. That was done with purpose. The street protest took form after the elections for the most part after the illness had already set in. While people like me were putting out the warning symptoms. Nader and Hedges were warning us on how the Sanders campaign was going to end up. And they hit the bulls eye. The probable fall out of a Trump win was plastered all over independent news sources, along with his history of shady dealings. I used them for over a year. His presidency has gone virtually as was predicted. I'm attempting to state that those that had the best opportunity to prevent a Trump win failed us. Also with a purpose.
@William_Mary I agree with most of what you have said. But, actually, I said nothing about partisan divide going to the streets, though I am not denying the significance and influence of that. There was a huge Stop Trump movement among Republicans, led by Republican establishment candidates, to attempt to prevent Trump from getting the nomination. In fact, Ted Cruz was so consistently insistent that Trump would not get the nomination that I thought he secretly knew something that he did not want to admit publicly. Then to my surprise, though in retrospect it probably should not have surprised me, the Republican Party cravenly became the Trump party in a heartbeat. Next to the American public falling for Trump's con job, the Republican establishment's abandonment of their principles and embracing of the Trumpian coup d'etat of the Republican Party has disturbed me most of all. As Gary Hart said recently in an interview, if Trump with all he has done can become President, anyone now can become President. Character doesn't matter anymore. So what is next?
I still don't think that you have made your case against impeachment. However, I do think that there is something to be said for the Kavanaugh argument that a long impeachment trial, especially if it is successful, could divide and harm the nation even more than it has been harmed and divided now, and it would be best to go after whateverTrumpian crimes there may be after he is out of office. But then again, it could be argued that is closing the barn door after the horse is in the next county.
The power in both parties is tied to banking and fossil fuels. As long as the DNC courts that money they happily go along with gradual moving towards fascism as defined by corporate control of state. The GOP and DNC are heavily invested in the swamp as shown clearly by Obama's advisors. The Clintons are political corruption personified and heavily indebted to the military complex.
One can only hope that the latest hopefuls do not get corrupted before being joined by more in 2020. The only hope for the Democrats is the ousting of all their controllers.
Far better than impeaching Trump, which could cause an uprising of well armed ignorant supporters, would be for the senate to increasingly ignore him and for congress to gradually try to clean up the mess.
rogerbenham
Level 8
Dec 12, 2018
2
"which could cause an uprising of well armed ignorant supporters"
Riots unchecked most likely!
I forgot to say that I don't want him impeached because Im hoping he gets prosecuted when he leaves office and Pence scares me much more because his agenda is just fucking evil
Lucy_Fehr
Level 8
Dec 12, 2018
2
Yea, I meant to mention his taxes in that above! Now there's a possible legal reason to go after him. But they're doing a good job of keeping that a secret. And we all know dam well someone out there has his taxes that could release them.
I agree with quite a bit of what you said in that most of them are pretty corrupt and fear the aftermath of impeachment proceedings. I am not sure I agree with your first point however. Or that all the newcomers will become corrupt.
I mostly agree with your fourth point but DUUUUUUUDDDEEEE
I wish you would use paragraph breaks
Lucy_Fehr
Level 8
Dec 12, 2018
2
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