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When I downloaded this app about a couple of weeks ago I definitely categorized myself as agnostic but for some reason As the days go by I feel like I’m leaning more and more towards atheism. Did anyone go else go through this?

Ashxoleyxo 5 July 27
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6

Nope I popped out of the womb with a copy of Darwin's Origin of Species in my hot grubby little little mitts

Love it lol

5

Don't let the labels hang you up. Your personal search for understanding is the important thing.

You’re right! I need to keep that in mind! Labeled do tend to contemplate things.

5

There really isn't much difference. Agnostics are all freethinkers. If you are an atheist and make the claim that there are absolutely no gods, then you have placed the burden of proof upon yourself. I no longer believe in gods of any kind but the subject cannot be proven either way, for or against.
Do gods exist? On a scale of 1 to 10 my disbelief goes up to about a 9 even though I studied for the ministry in earlier life. We have no evidence of gods and "holy writings" prove nothing.

5

That's not surprising, the more information you get the more it starts to make sense that you'd start leaning more towards atheism. It would be hard not to after you read some of the intelligent comments about things. I'm actually having the same experience right now so nope, you're not alone in this =)

4

I get the impression that agnosticism is often a somewhat less considered and more avoidant position for some than atheism. Particularly for women, who I think for social reasons tend more to really resist the atheist label (my wife does, and she is, without question, definitionally an atheist). So it wouldn't surprise me if some folks would come here, be exposed to some socialization on the topic, and realize, yes, technically at least I am more of an atheist, and maybe that's not such a scary concept.

Increasingly also I have come around to the point of view that if you are a classical agnostic (you not only don't know there is or isn't a god, but don't think it's possible to know), then it involves some real mental gymnastics to hold that position and not be an atheist. Because if you can't stake a knowledge position one way or the other, what basis do you have to stake a belief position one way or the other?

However ... it's all good. If someone wants the agnostic label but not the atheist one, I certainly don't think the less of them for it, so long as they don't make some asshat claim that atheism is untenable but agnosticism is.

Thank you for your perspective on it, I like it, it makes a lot of sense. I never really thought of it that way.

4

Not on this site, but I did through life. As I understand it, agnostic is more popular in America, where people play up their uncertainty to try and appease the religious community. For example, scientist trying to get funding from the government which has a lot of religious members, it's better to have no opinion on religion than being known as an atheist.

I personally believe that if you have the personality that can be out as an atheist and not piss off everyone around you or not have to deal with some other kind of blowback, then you should. It helps make it easier for others.

JeffB Level 6 July 28, 2018

That’s a really good point.

Excellent point about the term playing up uncertainty in order to appease. I think the other side would prefer to categorize as many as possible into the category of agnostic as opposed to atheist as well because it gives their side more legitimacy, and more security in their beliefs. It looks a lot better saying only 10% of the population are atheists and 30% are nones rather than the other way around.

4

Well I have to admit that I swing from one to the other. One day I believe I could be Agnostic and on another day I could be Atheist. That tells me that I am comfortable being either.

That describes a bit of how I’m feeling right now.

@Ashxoleyxo I don't think that is a bad thing. 😀

3

Not from this site, but it was definitely a process. I was agnostic for years, told everyone I prayed "to whom it may concern." But I started realizing that atheist thinkers resonated far more than the fantasy of some divine being that never shows itself. The biggest hurdle for me was accepting the fact that my loved ones who've died are truly gone, not waiting for me just beyond an invisible curtain. I had to go through a whole secondary grieving process that frankly really sucked. But I feel like I am now fully engaged with reality, and that has been a gift. It gives me the strength to walk away from things that aren't worth my energy, and now I embrace, sometimes even demand, possibilities I might never have considered.

I feel like I’m going through that same thing with wanting to see the loved ones I have lost (especially my son and grandmother) again, I guess that was the logic I was using to help with my grief.

@Ashxoleyxo I totally understand. The thought we might one day see loved ones in an afterlife is often the only comfort to be found during times of loss. Letting go of that hope is hard. Don't rush yourself.

3

I did not. I've always known I was an atheist, as soon as I understood what the word meant.
That said, it's okay to change your viewpoint - on anything.
You do you. Be bold.

Thank you for that. I actually needed to hear that. Sometimes I feel guilty for changing my views on things.

@Ashxoleyxo You are very welcome. You get to change your mind on any damned thing you wish. I don't believe in guilt, it's wasted energy. 😉

3

To choose agnosticism is to choose to believe that the human intellect is not able to use reason and the knowledge and tools that we have today to determine that there are absolutely no purple little polka dot god pigs. We cannot "know" this NOT to be, after all. Agnosticism is the cowards mechanism for insuring their entry to a heaven that we "cannot know" exists or not: A heaven we cannot "disprove" and that "could" exist, on an agnostics other hand. Agnosticism insults the human intellect and it caters to providing ignorance a place at the table of reason. I have more respect for the commitment and confidence of a snake-handling, tongues-blabbering, illiterate Kentucky Pentecostal fundamentalist than I do the stance of an agnostic.

Wow. That was hardcore. I'm with you about half the way, though I feel that in many instances people are simply still at a stage where they are ignorant of much of the evidence against the claims of religion. But I also have little doubt that in many instances a lack of honesty and courage is at play.

3

"Agnosticism is the view that the existence of God is unknown or unknowable. Atheism is simply living life without any gods. Most people who have one view, also has the other."

This is from the front page of this site, but that doen't mean everyone accepts it.
The answer to your question is in how you, and anyone who answers it, defines these terms.

Incidentally, there seems to be a typo in the third-to-last word of this.  It shoud say "have the other" I think.   Maybe the devil overwhelmed the editor that day.  (-;
3

Not since I downloaded the app but I had confusion about how to label myself. Atheist or Agnostic? Later, I found out that two labels answered two different questions and I was an Agnostic Atheist.

Darw1n Level 2 July 28, 2018

True enough, but why even bother with the term Agnostic. Most religious folk admit they don't have absolute knowledge. That's why they call it faith. They don't generally refer to themselves as Agnostic in any way. It's largely an unnecessary and useless term in all but some very limited cases.

3

I have no belief in any god or gods-where are they? Man has created them to pacify their fear of the unknown. Which has been perverted into power and control over others.

Atheists tell me since I state I am a spirit having a human experience I am agnostic. As I understand it, agnostics are open to the idea of a higher power but I’m not. Knowing I am a being of energy not defined by this current shell, in my mind does not equate the existence of any god. The two are not dependent on each other.

I have had unique experiences that have enlightened me to this truth. I have always been able to sense or feel energies or spirits. I have even been regressed to the point of being without a form or body and my being was still aware. I have been in the void beyond form and still existed. Humans are primitive and limited despite the gadget developed. There is more to us than currently understood. We have forgotten our true nature. Atheist, agnostic, theist are just attempts to understand what we are—energy. All life is energy. Energy cannot die it just transforms into something else.

Humans have stopped evolving since the enslavement of religion began. Enlightenment of thought has been squashed and stifled by the power hungry. I always tell those interested to look outside the box. Think bigger and trust your intuition-that is your true self not the mammalian brain.

Atheist or agnostic are just labels. Free your mind beyond these labels and look beyond them. Theists are lost caught up in this reality listening to ideas of others and not looking within to their own truths.

3

Yes. I am now for the past many years willing to accept a higher power with proof. But likely believe any higher power would be like me owning gold fish. Something nice to look at at the end of day, but no real concerns as to what happens in my tank.

Wahker Level 6 July 28, 2018
3

So this is how I define Agnosticism, it is without knowledge, and Atheism as without belief. One can actually be both. I don't know if god exist, but I don't actively believe he/she does. All you need to be an Atheist is not convinced of a god/gods, thats it, you can still believe in ghost or a soul even, but if you have no belief in god you are technically an Atheist. Some people do not like the term because of some of the Atheist they have met in the past, or just the negative view point society has attributed to it, but Atheist come in all kinds of different packages it only defines one aspect of a person, not the person themselves. Of course this is just technicality of terms you should call yourself what ever you are comfortable with.

3

It’s a question of social conformity... you were probably hanging into agnosticism in order to not injure some people you are close to, while actually being atheist at heart. Agnosticism is a stance with a number of problems.

Denker Level 7 July 28, 2018
3

Ive spent my whole life searching for Gods and ghosts. I have, unfortunately come up mostly empty. I wish magic was real. Id be a wizard. If there are Gods they certainly are apathetic about making themselves known.

2

I think most people that start out religious pass through stages before finally sloughing off belief completely. For me, and most I assume it starts by questioning the particular interpretations of the holly book of a particular sect, then the tenants of that sect. (Baptist, Catholic, Sunni, Shiite, ect). Then you get unsure of if there's actually a god, or if their is, what god is the "correct" god. Some may switch sects and settle there, some may switch religions because of those questions, I've seen Christians go to Wicca, or Judaism, Islam, Buddhism or any combination. Really though I think once someone walks away from a belief system they end up abandoning all of them completely at some point.

I believe I’m in that process of discarding all
Of them as well. My friend and I just got out of a cult like Buddhist practice, while she’s thrown herself into astrology and a little of Wicca, I have been in this whole thought process that none of it is real. I like the idea of Wicca but it still feels like there are so many “rules” and rituals involved that I don’t want be apart of that either. I’m not apart of any organization/religion right now and I feel less stressed but at the same time it feels strange.

@Ashxoleyxo I tried the Wicca phase as well. Can't say I felt any pull to the religion itself, but the people involved seemed to be more honorable and trustworthy as a group than the Christians around me at the time. In the end though, I believed in all gods and goddess the same amount, zero, so I walked away from that. I gotta say, the Baptists did a good job of instilling the fear of god and hell in me as a and it took a long while to finally shake the "what if I'm wrong" feeling. Wicca was an attempt to settle that feeling. I don't get that feeling anymore, I act on what I know and what I can prove. I've done the soul searching, research and mental exercises, I'm convinced I'm not wrong. I suppose every believer is convinced they're not wrong as well, but I'm comfortable with disbelief knowing I got to that point through rational thought.

2

No not because of this site but becaise of more and more history that ive learned...plus all the indisputable evidence of earth's history

2

I am reasonably certain that most all would say they do not believe in flying, fire breathing dragons or fairies with pixie dust or Dracula who can change from a human into a bat. The same should apply to the god claim when saying you are A-theist rather than Agnostic. Agnostic A-theist would be an acceptable description.

See that’s the same thought process I had when I was growing up but was shamed for it and guilted into believing in only demons, angels, God and the Devil but everything else was imaginary and unreal.. never made sense to me.

2

Ha ha ha! I think you have been hanging out with the right people lately!

Ha i think you maybe right! I feel less stressed.

2

I go around and around with the definitions of atheism and agnosticism. In the spirit of Taoist philosophy I don’t like rigid labels when talking about ultimate truth. Trying to capture these realities in words is like trying to hold water in a sieve. To me the reality can begin to be captured in discussions using these words.

I like the word atheist because it seems to be a more definitive stance than agnosticism. I have definitely rejected the tenets of theism(there is a creator, he(hilarious to use any pronoun) is somehow like a person, he personally interacts with people, he punishes/rewards, he lets you into heaven, he is responsible for anything we can’t understand, etc)

I don’t like the word atheist because in a sense it simply means that I am “not a theist”. I am also “not a flat-earther” and “not a phrenologist” and I am “not” an infinit number of things. Why is there a special label for a thing I am not? This label allows so much to be attached to it. People who haven’t thought about it much tend to think atheists are amoral, a-spiritual, asocial, nihilistic, cruel, selfish, etc.

In the simplest sense agnostic means ”without knowledge”. I like this if it means “without ultimate knowledge”. In this sense science is agnostic on all things because all theories/beliefs are subject to revision when new evidence compells it.

I also like “agnostic” because I don’t entirely reject the idea of a “higher power” in the spiritual sense. I don’t believe in a supernatural higher power but I do believe there is something to a “sociological higher power” (a term I just made up but derived from “sociological imagination” ). This higher power would be something like the collective will and presence of a group in which you are embedded and which you can experience.(analogy: a neuron is to a brain, as, an individual person is to a higher power).

I read through this entire conversation thread and I think the collective discussion itself begins to capture the reality of the concepts we are all trying to grasp. Static definitions of the individual words “atheism” and “agnostic” pale in comparison to this discussion as a whole, in the ability to capture the meaning.

This was a really insightful response! Thank you!

I only wish to take issue with one thing you said. I've heard the argument that we don't call ourselves "Aflat-earthers" etc. But it's always false equivalency used as an analogy. The term Atheist works because the vast majority of the population are Theists. That's not the case with the examples normally trotted out.

@Rossy92 you definitely have a point.

@Jagnostic I suspect many who use that analogy at root simply wish either to avoid the stigma of the word "Atheist", or simply wish to avoid being pigeon-holed with any label, which I can understand and respect. But I take offense when these falsely equivalent analogies are used which makes it seem as if it's a nonsensical stance to identify with the term. Not only does it refer to something which the majority of the population are (Theists), but it also happens to be one of the most significant and life-defining areas of our lives, much more so than whether you play golf or ski to use some common examples. It's an over-extension which is unnecessary as well as offensive. Is there anything wrong with the terms non-exempt, non-smoker, or non sequitur, or of the words apathy, amoral, or asexual. And if the objection to the word "Atheist" is truly due to it not being a positive statement of what you are, then there are multiple alternatives including Humanist, Secular, Secular Humanist, Apistevist, Skeptic, Freethinker, and Naturalist. Come to think of it, Agnostic is also a negatively worded term.

2

I am very glad that you are exploring how you know what you know. Athiesm is not chosen it is discovered. one day you may just come to realize you do not believe in a God.
Agnostic is a knowledge claim,
Atheisms is a belief claim.

One may be both.
The important thing is you a re digging deeper.

2

Think of agnosticism this way: unless you consider yourself agnostic to every magical creature people claim exist, you’re giving special exemption to certain ones, simply because they’re popular.

Marz Level 7 July 28, 2018
2

Welcome, welcome. Your call, I won't try to convince you how to live your life... wishing you good luck finding what brings you peace.

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