so....soul, no soul? does a consciousness, self-aware and singular, proceed without body? Do you stop? Does mind dissolve into the thought dimensions? i wonder sometimes if it's there at all.
The better question is what is the ontological significance of personality? Self? Is it merely an expression of biology? Does it have a separate reality to itself? Or is personality just modes of behavior?
The soul is simply a construct of our ancestors minds. Consciousness or the mind if you wish could not be touched. It did not seem to be part of the body. They did know that if you got thumped on the head it would knock you out or cause mental problems, but the mind was not physical.
They did not understand that the mind is a biological,chemical and electrical machine that causes consciousness.
So the myths began. If the mind was not part of the body it was easy to assume it was independent of the body and could not suffer death.
The soul as it is called of course quickly became associated with religious matters and speculation of the afterlife. It's amazing to study ancient cultures and actually see the evolution of thinking......about thinking.
Oh!! I like this one. Sort of goes with my thinking on the mind.
The mind causes consciousness?
Could you elaborate on this further? How does the mind cause consciousness?
@mrdunn Absolutely. Scientists have proven that bio-chemical processes cause electrical synapses that make the brain function. If the Brian or "mind" is not functioning we do not have consciousness. This is why atheists such as myself believe there is no reason to believe in any sort of after life. Once the Brian ceases to function, for us the entire universe ceases to exist. There is no reason to believe otherwise.
@DavidLaDeau I see. You equate mind with brain. I don't think they are synonymous.
Yes, neuroscience has discovered that electrical impulses release neurotransmitters from their vesicles which then move across the synaptic gap and connect with a receiving neuron which might or might not become excited. But is that what we call a thought? Is that the basis for creativity?
Quantum mechanics, however, has shown that there is causal discontinuity in nature at the quantum level i.e. events at the quantum level of reality have no physical cause. Synaptic events in the brain, which are subject to quantum indeterminacy, give rise to causal uncertainty at the level of the whole brain. So it would seem that human mind/consciousness is not fully causally determined in the physical world.
Although you say you have no reason to believe that human consciousness is anything more than biochemical processes, do you have a reason to believe that consciousness is a property of physical matter?
To say “If the Brian [sic] or "mind" is not functioning we do not have consciousness”, is like saying that if my television is not receiving a television signal then there is no television signal.
@mrdunn There is no evidence that there is consciousness without a brain. How it works exactly we do not know. There is positive proof that we can not have consciousness without a brain. What I am not going to entertain is the notion that the soul exist just because "some guy says so". I am not going to entertain the idea that consciousness exist outside of the body. If it does please tell me what it was like before you were born. If consciousness exist after death and God simply issues us a body to put the consciousness in surely we could remember that.
We must not conflate wild, primitive magical notions with reality just because we like the idea of it.
Well @DavidLaDeau, what piqued my interest initially was your assertion that “mind is a biological, chemical and electrical machine that causes consciousness”, you have now qualified that statement by saying “How it works exactly we do not know”. To my knowledge, nobody has ever witnessed the brain causing consciousness, so I guess that puts you at risk of conflating your ideas with reality too.
It would seem you have confused my statements with advocating some form of pre-birth cognition or reincarnation or some such? Neither idea do I endorse.
I am not aware of the “positive proof that we cannot have consciousness without a brain” Can you elaborate on this?
@mrdunn I really am tired of this conversation. If you cannot accept the brain is what causes consciousness then I can only suggest you study more..science not theology.
@DavidLaDeau Ok David, I wish you well.
@mrdunn I do appreciate the fact you have been polite. Best wishes!
I don't believe in a separate consciousness, so no, I don't believe it proceeds without the body.
You will finally become so aware of all that is that you will realize that the life you led was just an instant in the scheme of all things. Insignificant as in of itself but your impact will have been made to the world for each life. You were here to do your part to make all that is better with ever day and every life that passes. So go the sands of time. We are each that little speck of sand doing our part to keep it all together, growing,learning and just getting better every day. We are just a cell in the body of all that is. We never really die because we live through each other as the same being that always has been and always will be getting better every day because of each of us. I would call that creature life but the religious people have tried to separate it from us and sell it back to us as the god of their choice. The little voice in my back pocket has never given me a name to call it. We all have it and the religions have no control over it. They can't give it or take it away. You will always be one with the universe and all that is. The peace will be in knowing that it all ties together for the good of all that is. Imagine us all as just an inhaled breath for life itself that will be exhaled and inhaled many times. The soul you feel in yourself is the same one in us all and it will not die unless all life dies everywhere. You are immortal in spirit as are we all. No religions needed.
Nah
We are stardust. We are golden. We are billion year old carbon. And we've got to live our lives passing this truth on.
There may be a soul separate from the body, but at present, I don't think there's convincing evidence of it. In my view, our consciousness is equivalent to our "soul." It starts at our birth (or maybe even in the womb), and continues until our death..
I think that people invented the concept of a human soul for the same reason that they invented "God" and religions - to try to explain our existence and the existence of the observable Universe. It may be depressing to some to contemplate that our consciousness and our "soul" will cease to exist upon our death. But to me, it's just a part of Nature. I'm agnostic, so I'm open to the possibility of life after death, but I'm not expecting it. I'll just be pleasantly surprised if my consciousness does continue after the death of my body.
Whatever energy exists in my living body will be converted to the energy of decomposition. There is no reason for me to believe that any part of my "mind" will exist in any way. I sometimes wish there were some kind of after-life that I could experience, but I just don't believe there is.
Imagine - don't believe feel and create.
When a brain is damaged, so is the "soul" that it contains.
No matter how deeply we probe, the mind appears to be a function of the brain.
If I believe there is no soul, does that make me an asoul?
Just how would anyone "know" anything about what is not a part of the natural universe? Everyone can talk about it but unless you can present some tangible, verifiable, peer reviewed evidence, facts or data to support your claim, it is just subjective speculation and opinion. I strive NOT to live by a belief system but by an evidence, fact and data based system. Try it, you'll like it.
I think particle physics will eventually supply you with the knowledge you seek. BTW, last time I checked Sociology studies aren't peer reviewed either. Doesn't make the findings incorrect.
Perhaps all living beings send out electronic signals that end up recorded around the rim of a black hole. Briantology 101 *
We are the most precision tools life has been able to create. When the tools have been worn out and are no longer efficient, they are thrown back in the forge to make newer, more modern tools for the newer jobs that need done. All that you are now will be left with those lives you touched to make their lives and those that follow a little better in so many complicated ways. Something you did in your life will affect others after you are gone. The people that knew you may make decisions based on what they knew or learned from you. That same information will be payed forward to future generations. Life is constantly growing and getting smarter with each and every one of us. We are the head of the spear when it comes to acquiring that knowledge. Most people just don't realize that everything they are doing it for the good of the many. The good of life itself. We do have a mission here but the religions have tried their best to prostitute that mission by trying to sell us back our own identities with their spin on it.
I almost imagine us as being like a little part of a big cloud of energy that rains us down one individual drop at a time to be evaporated back into the cloud to be rained down again as a different fresh rain drop. A never ending cycle. You come back with your new set of orders (genetic makeup) to a different place and time. Imagine if our minds were all linked together. We wouldn't be able to function because there would be too much information to sort out. We are more efficient because we are separate and think individually. That way, we can work on billions of tasks at once without getting them confused. We are each little learning machines developed over billions of years to work together for the good of all that is. Almost like we are each blank tapes to record each of our lives which are uploaded into the mainframe to be copied, formatted and then sent back for more information.
I don't tend to believe in the whole soul thing, but I know it's true. Part of me likes to think that the energy that was once pulsing through us to create our hopes, dreams, and personalities is released back into the universe. All I really know is that one day, my heart will stop and my brain will die. All that I ever was or would have ever been will perish. Until that time comes, I'm fine.
*NOT true
Typo
Did you see the movie phenomenon?
The Apple scene with George talking to the kids.
Interesting...
A theoretical Quantum Multiverse is the only path I see where an afterlife with inherited consciousness is possible.
In a multiverse theorem anything can be possible, even the laws of physics and what we understand to be real and not real.
I have tendency to believe in possibility of soul but could be something else for somebody else. Soul to me is what I am after removing this physical form. What gives me life via my heart pumping blood. Call it spirit or call it nothing as such is real. I will have to die to find an answer I reckon.
Yea - an ancient question to which there is no definitive answer.
@Leutrelle I just wait... not in the hurry for all mysteries of a lifetime to reveal to me at once. I like what I experience here. Let the afterlife wait for me until I get there.
@GipsyOfNewSpain Me Too
No soul, no spirit, no god, no Santa, no perfect person, no monsters under your bed or in your closet... no proof
Nobody knows what happens to our mind/soul/personality/consciousness when our bodies quit working. I fervently hope that when my body quits, my "self" quits too, that the atoms in my body go back to the stars. I have talked to people who are certain they can remember past lives. No proof, but some of the stories make me scratch my head. It is a mystery. We don't know.
but what of the energy that powers those atoms? what conversion takes place? It will be fun - IMO- whatever way it goes. It's a choice we can make here, be happy and smile, or be gloom and doom. or a combination. I love this site!!
Matter and energy are interchangeable I think, all it takes is the right velocity and matter becomes energy and all energy has to do to become matter is slow down over time. So yeah, I think so. Evolution is slowing down huh? Hey that didn't sound right, but it might be.
Energy is equal to mass times the velocity of light squared, so does that make mass the is energy divided by the speed of light squared + 4B years of evolution - tada!
I can't disprove it. But I haven't seen any evidence in favor. Show me something, then we'll talk.
If souls do exist, I think it's completely coincidental that anyone thinks they have one. Every decision or action we come to is self contained within the neurological signals in our brain. It does not follow that some immaterial wisp is at the controls of a biological mechanism. I think it's just a way for people, unsatisfied with life, to attach some greater meaning to their existence. However, if you think of yourself as a physical mind with physical reactions to physical stimulous, then it might follow that your physical concerns have a far greater impact than any imaginary concerns your physical mind chooses to believe in.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy"
While I do not subscribe to a religion or the concept of an all-powerful "God", I am still open to the concept of an existence beyond the physical body. There is so much we don't understand scientifically about our body and the nature of the universe. As a supporter of science, I look forward to the day when we discover that the "mind" is a unique organism attached to the body. After death, it moves on to...who knows? Another dimension? Absorbed back into the universe? The options are endless. Maybe that energy is no longer uniquely- Jill, Tom, or Jenny...but it exists in another unfathomable way that we don't even understand. Again-- I am open to possibilities upon confirming evidence. I'm not going to write the idea off. It's definitely interesting to debate.
I'm going with no soul. Thinking there is one opens up a bunch of pandora's boxes that I would rather ignore.