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20 4

Where are you on Narcissistic Spectrum?

The truth is, each and every one of us has narcissistic traits, some more than others.

The narcissistic spectrum, a scale of 0-10, governs whether we have a little sense of self-importance or if we have a narcissistic personality disorder.

This article is NOT nor is it meant to be a conclusive evaluative tool. It is however indicative of a few little-known placements on the narcissistic spectrum.

#narcissism #NarcissisticSpectrum #mindfulness #behaviour

[learning-mind.com]

josephr 7 Aug 8
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0

don't know really. Probably best to ask my ex and my best friend and cut it down the middle somewhere assuming their answers were different.

Think the healthy range but they really should have a quiz 😉

1

Are you kidding? I could defoliate the Forest of Approval!

1

I suppose it depends upon whom you’re asking. I’m willing to wager there are those who would rate me at least a 20 while others would swear I’m totally selfless. I suppose I should fess up the fact that if I like someone I would give them the shirt off my back but if I don’t like someone I’m very, very cold

PaulD Level 5 Aug 9, 2018
2

Is suffering from low esteem the opposite of narcissism?

@PalacinkyPDX Thanks for the insight and sorry about your own problem with this condition. Are you having any therapy or treatment for it ?

@PalacinkyPDX No I am fine, but my son is on the Bipolar/Personalty Disorder spectrum so I have an insight. I wish you well.

@PalacinkyPDX said it very well with "obsessing on one's low self-esteem is a form of narcissism. Everything in the world is filtered through one's poor image of oneself." I grew up dealing with the issue and used narcissistic tendencies to survive my home life and to fly out of the nest. Fortunately, i had a great help from a skilled psychotherapist enhanced by learning i received from my Psych Professor Vance Peavy who helped me become the relatively balanced person i think i am today. But the compulsions still percolate and need to be managed, which is where mindfulness and self-applied socio-dynamic interventions keep them under control.

@josephr Thank you for that explanation, I hope you are well at the moment.

@Marionville You're welcome.

Yes, i am well; I hope you are too.

I have never been better in fact. After years of maintaining a balance, I experienced a major identity crisis after closing my therapeutic practice, then moving to a new town to start a new life with a person whom i had misjudged.

I had become too complacent and had stopped looking for signals that my disability was beginning to resurface. Being with a codependent and entitled woman brought forward my 'rescuer' compulsions, which is just another form of co-dependency when allowed to take over. I became the classic accomodator in fact, sublimating my own needs in the process; something i could only do for a short while before my narcissistic survival tendencies took over. Co-dependencies are also another potential symptom that something is not right for those of us who have narcissistic attributes. Like fight or flight solutions, narcissism had become a form of self-preservation.

After a night or more (LLOL) of stress, sleeplessness, feeling sorry for myself, and beating myself up for what i had become, I self-extracted out of that relationship. It took a great deal of self-reflection until, after the requisite grieving and self-actualization period, i let go and moved on with no harm accruing to either me or Jody.

The crisis was a gift and a wake-up call showing me there are always behaviours and feelings within me which i need to watch for. If i want to live the life of my dreams, that is.

Permanent disabilities, even psychological and emotional ones, just need to be actively managed, with or without help, but should never be ignored. Be well.

@josephr Yes, it is hard for someone like me who is lucky enough to have no health problems mental or physical to put myself in your shoes. I do have a son with some problems, he has an addictive personality disorder or something similar so I am able to empethise. I’m glad you are in a better place right now, long may it continue,

0

There is also something called 'anti-narcissism' included in the DSM-V as a variant of the Narcissistic Personality Disorder(s)

Can you explain further?

@Hihi if I understand correctly, an anti-narcissist is someone who, instead of aggrandizing themselves diminishes their value, downplays and negates their advantages, and more or less minimize their value, and the value of their actions, but follows the same kinds of behavior patterns as a regular narcissist, just in the opposite direction.

It's...like a severely depressed form of narcissism with aggressively low self-esteem but with the same level of self-investment.

The wiki defines antinarcissism is a specific form of narcissistic character that, rather than aggrandising the ego, restricts its scope without diminishing the amount of self-investment involved.

Christopher Bollas introduced the concept of antinarcissism to describe a self-limiting kind of narcissist who refuse to develop themselves or use their talents, so as to maintain their exaggerated sense of self-importance in defeat. "This anti-elaborative person 'stews in his own juice' and adamantly refuses to nurture himself". The antinarcissist may preserve a hostile, even sadistic, core behind a self-effacing facade of care and consideration for others.

André Green similarly wrote of antinarcissism as a negative narcissism that seeks self-destructively to abolish the ego.

[en.m.wikipedia.org]

@geist171 I read about that and it still doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. It seems like this might be a person who can't think outside of themselves, thinks the whole world revolves around them, all while having a very negative view of themselves?

@Hihi a person who always plays the victim of circumstance is one kind of oversimplified example. Another would be someone who makes themselves the center of attention by focusing on the negative things without making any actual effort to fix them. The narcissist seeks admiration, the anti-narcissist pity? Again, an oversimplified explanation.

And I get the feeling a lot of more-aggressive forms of depression and low self-esteem (and less aggressive forms of anxiety or PTSD) sort of mirror these behaviors, because in the long term (clinical) depression, for example, possesses an inertia that inclines one to wallow and dwell and spiral and fixate on negative thoughts and experiences and those become a kind of central self-identifying structure around which a lot of the external experience is built, and there's an apparent lack of ways to improve the situation which precipitates further wallowing and fixation.

I'm not sure the symptomatic or diagnostic differences, but on the surface it kind of seems like it's a narcissistic disorder built on top of depression instead of a generalized need for admiration from simple low self-esteem (or possibly as a behavioral overcompensation for something like imposter syndrome)

I'm a little curious to know if persecution complexes (which are often a byproduct manifestation of narcissistic rage) operate differently for anti-narcissists than regular narcissists.

4

This is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. Narcissists do NOT think they are better than other people. This is just another bigoted, ignorant take on it. It is simply irresponsible for untrained laypersons to pretend they can define mental disorders.

A narcissist is Someone whose self esteem relies largely or entirely on the opinions of others.

This DOES mean that MANY people will ACT like they are superior, because if the people around them aren't impressed with them then they fall apart. This DOES mean the SOME of them are so bogged down in this fear that they are unable to think of how other people think. And this is not a good thing of course.

Trump is a narcissist and you see how he has to SAY he is the best at all times, and completely freaks out if he is criticized- but NOT because he THINKS he is better. If you know you are better, why would you care about the opinions of others? He desperate for us to think he is the best, the richest, the most everything, and everything he does is gold, because otherwise he will feel he is the worst.

I am asking no one to feel sorry for Trump. Just to comprehend that he does not think he is the best, he needs you to think it so he can feel it. Make sense, right? People with a healthy self esteem are generally comfortable with who they are, and are fairly humble. They don't need to impress you.

Note now that you are armed with this definition, you can imagine that the group of people who rely on others for self esteem-- the narcissists by an honest definition-- might be larger than those who we see and think are assholes. And this is true. Not everyone deals with this condition in a way that hurts others. Some narcissists just feel like shit and don't even try to have you think well of them, because they feel they do not deserve anything good. Can you think of anyone like this? Someone who is always miserable.

And there are other ways to react as well. Perhaps a mixture, for instance.

I was literally interested to be diagnosed as a narcissist in my 30s because, I had heard a few times I was the nicest person someone knew. In fact at age 14 I had resolved to have a positive effect on everyone I met. Of course it was the narcissist in me that made me need to think that was possible!! But of course the people you know of as narcissists probably never had that goal. I also do truly care about pretty much everyone I meet, or read about, or see on TV... A narcissist empath, weird concept!

I went into the bookstore to the psychology section to learn what narcissism was, and found 7 books out of 8 were about how horrible narcissist are. Only one was a thoughtful, careful and caring description, analysis, and exploration of the topic. This was the test, for me. A narcissist thinks they are special, different from others.

Now, before you think "she thinks that? What an asshole!" note that my immediate response was "Doesn't everyone?" I could not (and still sort of can't) imagine feeling like we are all the same.

Now, I did want, and intend, to be world famous, but I can be forgiven for that because both my grandfather and my mother WERE (Mom IS). So it wasn't that strange to think that I might have their brain. But I truly thought that everyone had a unique sense of being different than the world.

Once I explored the topic I had to admit to myself that that wasn't the only trait I had. I exaggerate. When I wrote up there that I had heard that "a few times," that I was the nicest person people had met, I had to edit it from "often" and before that from "generally." I actually do not remember how often or how many times, but I want to believe it was often and I want you all to believe that I am just always nice and everyone agrees. Otherwise I feel shitty about myself. But once I learn I have a flaw I work hard on it, so I now try very very hard not to exaggerate. I still want you to think that I am so damn nice; and I am bummed not to be able to make you believe it! But my conscience holds me back. And we are all multi-faceted; and apparently I have enough self esteem to handle what does literally feel to me like humiliation.

Of course I am hoping that people have a high opinion of me after I wrote this. For honesty or something. I can't help it. It is how I am built. Ignore me. But I hope you can see that being a narcissist does not translate into being an asshole. Just, some people react to the narcissist trait of lack of self esteem, by being assholes.

>PS< want to see a narcissist's profile? Follow my link 😀 😀 . What we choose to say about the same life shows a lot. I give myself license to show off about my brain pre-TBI!

...Now the narcissist wants you to read her profile. I can't win!!!!

I joined this group simply because I wanted to agree with the main thrust of what you have said. As far as I can understand from my own reading and other attempts to understand narcissism it IS associated with fragile self-esteem (and every child starts off - at the very least - with some of that). The three problems I can see with fragile self-esteem are first it is leads to a great deal of raw and intense pain all round, second it is connected to a feeling of well-being scarcity (if X has it, I can't) and the hatred that can provoke, and third it can discourage the development of values and principles (as having these will inevitably bring disapproval from some quarters). I agree that most people feel (and not falsely, since they ARE alive) they are special in some kind of way - although "there's nothing special about me" is another kind of defense. I've observed that many people experience their specialness in a very conflicted way and I think if specialness is based on comparison and competition that must be so. The experience of school and then work does not help this. And neither does that fact that it takes time and effort to recognise others and so we experience non-recognition (in both directions) in many of our interactions. I guess not caring about others' experience of one can be as dangerous as basing one's well-being upon it. Going down that route also leads to a "whatever-I-can-get-away-with" or "what feels good in the moment" kind of attitude. And in the end, that leads to driven never-really-satisfied experiences. What seems to be most important for a good life is the recognition that, while other people are not experienced in the same way as each of us experiences our own subjectivity, we are all potentially rich and mysterious and can have a great deal to offer one another. And that great deal can be got no other way. As I understand it, it is that sense that damaging the other, damages oneself. (That seems truer and also more attractive than the idea that we should not do harm to others because self and other are really the same.) I want to try and live in the place of giving and receiving. I have many confusions and dilemmas about how to do that but when I manage to do so, nothing could be better. I've read more about him that read his work, but Freud seems to have seen the reality principle as unfortunate. If he did, I think he is wrong. Life doesn't get worse because you have to leave babyhood behind. I'm grateful for the great adventure of reality.

1

Yeah, she was kind of vague and did not site any sources...

2

Hmm. I think that I am in the healthy range. I am humble, but don't mind being recognized for accomplishments. I am always thankful, to myself, circumstances, people who have helped me and who have trusted me. I never forget a kindness I receive from someone. Never.

2

Looks like I'm in the middle healthy range but I thought I would be more like 8ish!

1

Im so flawed im slowly dying I have Kidney Desease and Diabetese and im allergic to so much im more flawed then a broken robot smashed by a steam roller I'd say I score about a 0 on that scale there is nothing special about me at least I can't think of anything Diabetese has taken everything from me from job to love

0

That's interesting but to say we are all narcissistic in some way Leeds me to believe that you ain't narcissistic if you believe in God I know a lot of Believers that are narcissistic and they have taken that test and scored very high they use the belief of God even though you can't prove he exist as a means to say I'm going where no one else is going because I know God our personal scale so therefore I'm going to that magical place in the clouds granted there are a lot of non-believers there that way too but i know people who are avid believers and show alot of sighns of self perfection and self admiration to a high point lol

1

I think I'm in the 4-6 range but sometimes I may slide into a 2 or 3,

1

I dunno..not sure what knowing any of this does, since it seems to be built into our personalities. I think highly of myself and don't mind being the center of attention, and usually am, but don't go out of my way.

I don't care either way as I'm perfectly happy curled up with a Kindle book or out photographing birds in the swamps and jungles.

But I enjoy singing/playing in bands/groups, being in TV shows, radio shows, having my own radio shows, and teaching, etc. It's more about what I'm used to, and extremely good at.

When most people freeze in front of an audience, even if I feel neutral about it, I soon have them in the palm of my hand. I do it usually because it's my job or it's expected of me, and can take it or leave it.

Not everyone can do what I do, so I'm often sought after.

1

I'm about a 4 honestly, and only that high not because of narcissism but impulse control problems. I react first and foremost to "I want it" instead of thinking about how it affects those around me.

1

I'd say I range from 0 to 2.. The 0 part really is a problem.

6

As a practicing sociopath, I don't really care where I am on YOUR scale.
😉

1

I’m about a 1 right now, maybe a 3.9 on a good day. Haven’t had a good day in a little while though. And @exilesky me too but I think that only applies as the unhealthy type of narcissism if you’ve already established you’re a high number on the scale by the other metrics. Maybe not, in which case maybe I’m totally an introverted narcissist that just so happens to also be so introspective that I know it and hate myself? Who knows, but I remain skeptical. I’m not sure what’s wrong with me, but I’ll bet it’s harder to pronounce than that.

Maybe there's nothing wrong with you, and the problem lies with society.

@exilesky that would be somewhat of a relief but I suspect it’s a bit of both. Compared to the state of American society I feel pretty good about myself but that’s still really not saying much. ?‍♂️

1

Hmm - is there an actual quiz for narcissism? I know how accurate they are! Haha. My sister accused me of having narcissistic personality disorder and when I told that to my therapist (asking her 'how do you know if you have it or not?'😉, she laughed and laughed and laughed and when she finally caught her breath she said 'has she MET you?' I think I have always been socially dysfunctional and some people misinterpret that and can create all kinds of personalities for me that don't actually exist, because it's hard to get to know me. But my sister should know me pretty well and know that my dysfunction is exactly that, not narcissism. It's really strange to me how other people can totally misread others.

Hihi Level 6 Aug 8, 2018

Oh so I found an online quiz! So I scored 7 out of 20, with 12-15 being average and over 20 being narcissist. So, yeah, my therapist was right.

0

I wonder what a reasonable amount of self-regard is, and what score reflects that? If it is a zero score on this test, is that someone who has no regard for themselves at all? What's the score that puts you in the danger area?

1

I think I'm between 4-6 on the spectrum, but the description of the introverted narcissist really does sound familiar.

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