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There is a lot of discussion about people "deserving" things these days.

What does it mean to "deserve" something? how does one "deserve" things?

HereticSin 7 Sep 29
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I think we would be better off without the concept of 'deserving' altogether. I think we live in a totally material universe and things happen because of the way things are. We do things because our genetic make up and our environment have programmed us to do them. For example, I am a socialist, not because think poor and downtrodden people 'deserve' better, but because my nature and nurture make me uncomfortable living in an unequal society and I try to change it to make myself more comfortable.

I believe I may be on the verge of rejecting "deserve" in favor of better societal outcomes and basic humanity.

where it means "earned", I will use earned, and where it means "it works better for desired outcome" I'll use that.

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There are many different ways one might deserve something,rewards,punishment or some position they have taken are just a few ways one might deserve something. It would seem that one needs to take some action that results in deserving some response.

so you reject the idea that an infant deserves to be cared for?

@HereticSin No their action is crying ,smiling babbling etc.

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It is possible to feel someone "deserves" something without meaning that they are being specifically punished by some personal or impersonal force (a deity or karma) for the particulars of their behavior. This is usually connected with some concept of "natural consequences". You smoke, you get cancer (or more accurately, are more likely to get certain kinds of cancers). In that sense you brought the cancer upon yourself, although I'd maintain that if a person knew the risks and decided to "roll the dice" because they enjoy smoking so much, then all that happened is that they lost the roll of the dice while exercising their right to choose how to live.

To literally "deserve" something you have to have some authoritarian Enforcer -- be it god or government or society in some more informal sense -- visiting the consequences upon you, presumably after due and fair judgment (though in practice, often after undue and unfair judgment based on bad information or conclusions).

In general this mindset is not really helpful. A practical example is that a local charity here that provides free clothing and other assistance to the indigent, is one of several organizations that the department of social services refers people to, according to need. So the flow is that you apply for government assistance and they refer you to various government and non-government resources accordingly. But this organization I'm acquainted with, I'm told, finds that some people "wear out their welcome" with DSS because of things like addiction issues where they fail to comply or use of "free chances" so to speak and end up in a situation where the government won't even talk with them anymore. Hoping, I suppose, to shame them into compliance.

The "right" thing to do in this organization's view is to meet human needs where and when they are, without judgment. They have made a decision not to withhold services because the person "isn't deserving" or is non-compliant or not moving along some path of redemption. A human need is a human need. You don't leave someone to freeze on the street because they are a repeat offender with substance abuse or because they are mentally ill and not getting better.

The science is that complex behavioral challenges don't respond to carrots or sticks like one would intuitively think they would. Rote mechanical / physical tasks do, like running a faster race. But complex behavioral changes require that a person feel agency, personal freedom, and mastery. These are tied to respect and human dignity, and you don't feel respected and dignified when someone is telling you to shape up or else, or punishing you. Such people need encouragement and kindness and space to see their rational self interest. Or in the alternative, they need our compassion to ease their way, without judgment or a demand of progress on our terms.

so, this agency has rejected the concept of "deserve" as reward or punishment, and concluded that the best course for change is to accept "deserve", at least for some things, as a quality of humanity.

or, rather, has rejected "deserve" and decided on "we will do this, and not consider the idea of deserve, but only of humanity".

sounds like how I think of things.

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It's a judgment call made by someone usually for someone else, often involving a sense of wanting revenge, or "justice" for something negative they did. Or believing good things should come to someone for good deeds.

But this belief seems to depend on a higher power executing these judgments.

this I think is the core of my question: when "deserve" is used as a consequence, we understand it. you stole, you deserve punishment, you succeeded, you deserve reward.

but when it comes to the idea of inherent worth, "babies deserve love", they can't have done anything to earn that. it relies on the idea that something greater than "consideration" is making that judgment, and if you deny that, then it becomes nothing but a subjective opinion.

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Is a meaning confined between mercy and cruelty ... and between justice and injustice ...But if the judge, has Provide evidence, that the offender deserves to executed ... this is justice ... but (deserves ) here we put it part of mercy or cruelty?

belfo Level 6 Sep 30, 2018
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The term "deserve" surely means different things to different people. For example, I have a friend who shot his housemate while he slept, because the housemate left a mess in the kitchen after making a midnight sandwich.

My friend thought his housemate "deserved" to be taught a lesson, by shooting him in the chest and face while he slept. The court, in turn, decided my friend "deserved" up to 20 years in prison, when he was sentenced this past Thursday. Which person deserved what and how much?

We each decide our own actions and deliver our rewards or penalties to our own satisfaction. We each likely feel we deserve an easier life than we get -- and part of the experience of life is in figuring out how we can get that easier life.

I believe all we really have in that way are natural consequences and human responses. At least with that we have some control, which I prefer over a divine order where I wouldn't have any control. While some of the human responses are not fair, there usually is some cause, which makes life interesting in seeking those answers.

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No one said "life is fair" so good question. Here's another was the world better when you were born than now?

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If I understand the definition as being worthy of... IMO the phrase They deserve/d it. Or I deserve.. is a judgement call. It can be a positive or negative outcome based on an action or acts that should have some outcome. Its like I did X and I should get or have Y.
I think plenty of people deserve things but it is my opinion.

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The general consensus is that deserve is defined as being worthy of something, either good or bad. All the comments listed are good examples of different ways deserve can be used to convey a particular meaning. Some, like the comment about the millenials, show how it can be used to express the idea that someone feels entitled. In other cases, like if I said to my dog after a good day, you deserve a treat, it can show that someone earned something through either good behavior or hard work. In the case of the aforementioned child, it is used to express the idea that all things are worthy of some basic dignity at the very least. All are a different spin on the same root meaning. To be worthy.

Byrd Level 7 Sep 30, 2018
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Many think that others "deserve" bad things. Especially if they have killed someone or done bad things, but it is getting to where they think badly of you if you seem to have it better than they do. I know an idiot who wants me to loan him money just because he can't manage his money. If I did that then I wouldn't have any money. I think he admires and hates me at the same time. Is that possible? He keeps trying to tell me stories of the electric company shutting off his power. I stop him and ask if he owed them money how is he going to tell this story and have me be on his side? He gets more money than I do. He "deserves" this.

this definitely covers the "deserve as consequence" example. but if your friend had children, would they "deserve" to live without electricity because daddy is poor with money?

@HereticSin His kids are grown now but when they were small he made good money and his wife handled the cash. Today he is divorced and on social security.

@DenoPenno that doesn't actually answer the question.
IF he had infant children at home, would it change your position? and what about "infant" do you think makes people think "deserve"?

@HereticSin It's hypothetical. I'm confused here. He has no infants at home, no children at home. It makes your question make believe.

@DenoPenno I fully understand an unwillingness to deal in non-pragmatic hypotheticals, no judgy here. thanks for clarifying your position.

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To me, anyone who is willing to work hard and play by the rules deserves to be able to put food on the table, pay the bill's, have a decent roof over their head, drive a modest vehicle and be able to take a nice two week vacation once a year. All without having to worry about money.

so 5 year olds don't deserve all of that?

that's not a jibe, but just a point to clarify...just existing is often touted as "deserving". do babies "deserve" an incubator whether or not their parents have money or insurance if they are struggling?

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I think maybe it means if one has worked hard toward something, maybe even sacrificed for a goal, that they are deserving of the reward or situation they seek.

For me, I put up with a lot, sacrificed a good portion of my life, built a reputation and I feel I deserve the happiness I am living now.

For some, they perhaps also worked hard, but maybe should come to terms and reconcile some things before truly being deserving of the goal they seek. Honesty and compassion can erase some mistakes made along the way.

but this can't account for someone saying "all people deserve respect". surely a 5 year old hasn't done a lot of things to account for "deserving" something under this definition.

@HereticSin I didn't know your question was about "all people" deserving something. My answer still stands for people thinking they themselves deserve their goals.

For children, or "all people" I'd say they deserve an equal chance to succeed, unless they prove themselves unworthy due to character traits they choose to exhibit that disqualify them, such as willful laziness, rudeness, disrespect, lawlessness, dishonesty, hurtfulness, etc. They may deserve a chance to redeem themselves, but until they have made their amends or completed their accomplishments the "all people" statement is empty.

@Julie808 okay, but why do they deserve those things?

@HereticSin What things? A chance? Or what specifically?

@Julie808 sure, a chance to succeed. why do they "deserve" that? what does it mean to deserve that?

@HereticSin Sorry I can't help you with more definition. I simply believe that everyone deserves a chance to have the happiness they work for, providing they make good choices and don't disqualify themselves with bad behavior. Beyond that, I'm not concerned with the answer you are seeking.

Do you mean like Jimmy Kimmel's example that a baby who is born with a treatable condition deserves medical treatment if it's available, whether its parents can afford to pay cash without mortgaging their home or not? If every feral pet deserves a home instead of euthanasia? And many other questions, you could ask...

I'm not sure if "deserves" is always the best word choice, but ideally all people would have the same chances, with equal qualifications. That's not always how it is, and we have to deal with disappointments and keep trying to equalize the world toward more fairness, while not giving away too many entitlements without merit.

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The most common way it’s used these days is to belittle millennials.

Millennials think they deserve to not be a wage slave, and still live in poverty.

Generation Z thinks millennials don’t deserve what they ensured didn’t survive past their generation.

Marz Level 7 Sep 29, 2018

but that doesn't tell me what they mean by it. what would it mean to "deserve" those things?

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You can put that in really any catagory. Talking about "unearned privelage". Reperations for slavery, or for Natives? All different topics.

yes, they use deserve in all of those situations. but that doesn't tell anyone what it means.

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