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Literally every person I've seen on here that listed themselves as agnostic also listed themselves as atheist and that is contradictory! I just want to meet some agnostics like me please

utterlyagnostic 3 Jan 21
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7

'Agnostic' means that you can't know if a god exists. 'Atheist' means you don't belief in a god. Those two things are not contradictory.
These are the most common uses of those words but you probably have different definitions, so please share your definitions to let us see where the contradiction is coming from.

Dietl Level 7 Jan 21, 2019

Thank you...exactly...I am an atheist and I am agnostic...what I believe and what I know are separate things..."literally" is actually more of a contradictory word than those two...ha ha ha

6

It is not contradictory.
I go by and Agnostic Atheist.
Atheist because I in now way believe in anything supernatural, and especially a "God" figure.
Agnostic, because I can't prove it either way.

5

you really seem to obsess over this atheist vs. agnostic issue you have

5

We mostly reject labels here.....

5

I don't so you must not have looked at my profile. There are dozens of threads posted on the topic if you'd like to attempt the search feature. I only want to meet Antitheists, so there's no hope here.

i like you lol

Well ok, maybe you can "like" my comment, 😉 lol!

@CaroleKay done

4

They are not contradictory, they are just two sides of the same coin, at least when it comes to the standard-issue, supernatural, invisible, interventionist, non-falsifiable deity.

Agnostics say you can't know if there's a god. (knowledge position: no knowledge)

Atheists say if you can't know, it's darned hard to form a supportable belief (belief position: no belief)

If you don't want to identify with the Atheist label (for example, because it's a buzz-kill if you want to openly socialize as such) that's fine. You don't have to. The above argument is a philosophical one, it's not some sort of religious dogma. Think you're not an atheist if you'd rather not be that. Just don't try to use your private definitions for the terms "agnostic" and "atheist" in a philosophical discussion.

4

It is not contradictory. It is complementary.

If one is to assert that there is no god, one must be prepared to present the evidence to support the claim. Because there is no evidence and the absence of evidence does not represent grounds to make such an absolute assertion, it is a fool's errand to make the claim. In that respect, I am an agnostic. At the same time, for my personal stance, there is nothing existing outside our reality either. I maintain that position simply because there is insufficient evidence to make that assumption, though that same lack of evidence does not validate my stance. So, I don't believe in gods, leprechauns, bridge trolls, Ouija boards, or that black cats crossing my path are going to result in bad luck, luck being something else in which I hold no belief. That does not mean I'm right. All it says is that I haven't seen sufficiently compelling evidence yet, but if it were to be presented I would certainly have to consider it.

4

Atheist just means lack of belief in a god. It does not mean that with compelling evidence you will not change your mind. So you can be both, you can be an agnostic deist too

3

The trouble with the English language is that we are always saying that we ARE this or that thing as though that thing were identical with ourselves and that is all we are. Usually our positions or opinions can not easily be described by a simple label.

Regarding the existence God as described in the Old Testament, I am not persuaded by any of the evidence I’ve seen. That skepticism is nothing but a characteristic of myself and should be of no concern to other people. It is a trivial thing that doesn’t even concern me and I am certainly not going to label myself an atheist. I am skeptical of many many ideas but I need not label myself in regards to those iffy ideas. Conversely there is no “burden of proof”. If someone is persuaded of something that is their business only.

I lean toward the concept of universal consciousness, not as something magical or supernatural but as a metaphysical idea that might someday become part of the body of scientific knowledge. If anyone wanted to label universal consciousness as “God” I wouldn’t object. But labels are just empty words if you don’t have knowledge of the thing you are labeling.

I don’t know about Universal Consciousness with absolute certainty. Am I supposed to say that I am an agnostic? If so, I decline. Sue me. 🙂 What I do know is that there is an Ultimate Reality beyond the world of the senses. I reject any burden of proof. Sue me.

3

I don't believe in the supernatural and although I don't know for certain that no gods exist, I don't believe that which cannot be proven. Given that the burden of proof should fall on those who believe, I do not. I do not know with certainty that there are no unicorns, fairies, or mermaids either, but I am most certainly not agnostic on those counts.

I understand that I could be wrong, and I accept responsibility for that because if there is a god who allows the horrors, injustices, and suffering in this world, I do not want to spend eternity praising it.

JimG Level 8 Jan 21, 2019
2

Agnosticism is about whether or not you KNOW there is a God; Atheism is whether you believe there is any EVIDENCE for a God. You can see no evidence, and still not know, or think it is impossible to know for sure.

Orbit Level 7 Jan 21, 2019

I think you might have that backwards.

Agnosticism says that there is not enough evidence, and therefore people cannot know the answer to those questions.

Atheism is you do not believe in a god, gods or religious doctrine for whatever reason.

@BryanLV No it doesn't, you are on an non believers sight and you have the temerity to tell atheist they don't know what atheism means?
An Atheist does not accept the existence of a god or gods because there is no reasonable or evidential reason to do so. They do not deny the possibility of the existence of god(s) simply chose to reject it for the same reason they reject the existence of unicorns, fairies and boogeymen.
An agnostic claims it is impossible to know if god or gods exist because there is no reasonable or evidential reason to do so or not to do so, so claims to keep an "open mind" often open enough that their brain falls out.
In short agnostics want to use a watered down version of Pascals wager just in case, rather than shift the burden of proof to those professing deity.

@LenHazell53

You literally do not need a reason to be atheist. Atheism is not necessarily science based. You can be an atheist who believes in ghosts. They are not abstract terms that mean what the person who uses them defines them as. They are referential terms that actually have definite meaning.

If you get the words mixed up or incorrect, this can cause confusion when none is actually necessary. That's probably where my temerity comes from.

Also, this is a site, not a sight. Those words mean something too.

a·the·ist
/ˈāTHēəst/
noun
a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.
"he is a committed atheist"
synonyms: nonbeliever, nontheist, disbeliever, unbeliever, heretic, sceptic, doubter, doubting Thomas, agnostic, infidel, irreligious person, heathen, pagan, freethinker, libertine, nihilist

ag·nos·tic
/aɡˈnästik/
noun

  1. a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.
    synonyms: sceptic, doubter, questioner, doubting Thomas, challenger, scoffer, cynic; More
    adjective
  2. relating to agnostics or agnosticism.
    synonyms: skeptical, doubting, questioning, unsure, cynical, unbelieving, disbelieving, nonbelieving, faithless, irreligious;
2

I'm an agnostic. With that being said labels are subjective and serve no purpose no matter the persons beliefs(or lack of).

2

It's just definitions. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Ask or talk about what interests you.

2

Welcome to the asylum. Enjoy your stay.

Do you have something against atheists?
Not trying to be antagonistic, just curious.

I think I went antagonistic. 😀 Oh well.

1

Ready for a real head-exploder? I can (and sometimes do) choose to describe myself as "spiritual", on account of my commitment to Buddhism. I could even go so far as to use "religious", in the sense of a "religion" being "something strongly felt."

And yet the Buddhism I practice is not a "religion", according to the most common usage of the word--and I am most assuredly an atheist, as well as agnostic.

Look for Silvereyes's thread on this, if it's still available. The title has some language in it about "atheist vs. agnostic debate", IIRC.

1

Hi Erin, I have studied (and taught) the traditional arguments for and against the existence of God for decades and like you, I suppose, I'm a 50-50 agnostic.That is, I see no balance of evidence or logic either way for the existence of the orthodox theistic concept of God (=an omnipotent, omniscient, & omnibenevolent being).

1

it is not contradictory. an atheist can be someone who believes there are no gods or someone who simply does not believe there are any gods; the latter is compatible with agnosticism, which is the admission that one doesn't know. you can admit you don't know and still not believe there are any gods. "i don't know; i don't believe so" is not a ridiculous statement. as for the former definition, someone who believes there are no gods, one can believe in something without proof (theists do it all the time) so someone can say "i will never know for sure because there's no proof (agnostic) but i believe in my heart there are no gods (atheist). so you see, the two do not mean the same thing but they are not necessarily contradictory.

g

@Stacey48 one could, but how would that address the poster's misapprehension about the compatibility of the two terms? your statement is true but not relevant to the post, which isn't about proving there are gods.

g

@Stacey48 i don't see how it either elaborates or shows the lack of contradiction, but okay, if you say so.

g

@Stacey48 did i read my own comment? what kind of question is that? did YOU read my comment?

g

@Stacey48 calling someone pissy does not lend credibility to your words. did i call you names? did i characterize you? obviously you cannot tell which one of us is pissy. i'm through with YOU.

g

0

I am listed as Agnostic only. When the site asks how certain I am there is no god, I have 0%. The same goes for how certain I am there is a god, 0%.

For me there are fact and evidence based probabilities that determine my thinking. It's probably not at 0%, but that number is infintesimally low based on the evidence ive seen.

If youre interested in literal, fact based discussion; youre going to need to do some digging, because based on what ive seen on this site so far; many here are not all that evidence or fact based in their thinking.

There are a lot of people here that are here for emotional support and simply do not buy into the fables of the major religions that are pushed mainstream.

SCal Level 7 Jan 23, 2019
0

That being the case you need to give your personal definition of the word agnostic, because like Brexit, it is a word that covers a multitude of definitions outside of the literal or etymological one.

There can be beauty in exactness.

I believe she is using the literal definition; which is important to some people.

@BryanLV That being the case the original statement is inaccurate.
To be Agnostic (without knowledge, contextually of god or gods) indicates a non acceptance of the existence of deity until proven knowledge is provided.
Therefore atheism (without god or gods) is a prerequisite of agnosticism, in fact the latter is predicated upon the former.

However recently the idea of theist agnostics (contradiction in terms), spiritual agnostics (wishy washy idiocy) and atheist agnostics (redundant word play) have been bandied about based on more & more colloquial definitions of Agnosticism.

Personally since I believe in reason, logic, testing and evidence I find agnostic a redundant euphemism, and something used to hedge your bets when you are frightened to admit your atheism to others.

@LenHazell53

I agree with much of what you say. Acceptance yes. And that is where I am literally. Belief can be both described as, please correct me if I am incorrect, a fact based belief and a faith based belief. The latter being what religions are based on.

Isn't it possible to have an irrational faith not based on probability of falsehood? Because probabilities, many times, cannot absolutely rule the possibility of something out.

So agnosticism leads one to refrain from accepting, but not necessarily believing in a religious sense. I could technically accept Jesus into my heart, while knowing that the statement makes no literal sense. So whatever is meant by that I can believe it, while knowing its probability is infinitesimal.

0

I understand.

0

I like the way Bart Ehrman explains being both an agnostic and an atheist. Atheism confronts one’s lack of faith while agnosticism tackles the question of whether or not a god exists.

I may paraphrase this wrong, but I’ll admit it if I’m wrong:

Because of our limited knowledge of the universe, no one can be certain of the existence of some higher life form capable of creating life from inanimate matter. Lack of evidence of a deity prevents me from having blind faith in the existence of a deity, lack of knowledge prevents me from being certain that no deity exists. I am an agnostic atheist because I don’t know but I am scientifically open minded.

[ehrmanblog.org]

Huxley invented the term "agnostic", and I tend to let him give the "because". And the "because" has nothing to do with how complicated the universe is or how limited our knowledge of it is. To say that we're "just not sure" implies that eventually, with enough understanding, someone could [dis]prove god. Huxley's point was that supernatural beings and realms are inherently non-falsifiable. It's not a function of what we don't know (or aren't sure of), it is a function of it being impossible. If you locate god and heaven outside the natural order and then make various assertions about something despite only possessing the same nature-bound 5 senses as everyone else, then you're asserting things that, by their very nature, can never be proven nor disproven. That's the basis of agnosticism.

Because people don't "get" this impossibility, there's currently, and has long been, and for all I know, always has been a misconception that being an agnostic simply means the jury's out, and you're (perhaps temporarily) unsure. Well, that's only about a fourth of the story. It's permanently out. It can't even convene. There's no basis to move knowledge forward when the topic of conversation is entirely inaccessible to our five senses, or even to indirect observation.

0

Maybe you are more of a skeptic

0

Yes, you are quite correct. The name of this website is agnostic.com, but it has been taken over by a large majority of atheists. And agnostics and atheists are quite different from each other, as I have learned during my time here. I am an agnostic, and definitely not an atheist.

@jorj Don't know means don't know. It doesn't mean anything else.

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