Australia's most Senior Catholic cleric, and, until recently, the 3rd most senior world wide, Cardinal Pell, was sentenced today to a custodial sentence of over 6 yrs for sexual offences against 2 minors.
Although the conviction is subject to appeal, this is an historic moment. It says that justice is done even when we are dealing with a very influential person with many loyal to him in the Catholic church.
I hope this gives some solace to any here who are victims of clergy sex abuse.
What is your reaction to this news?
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Yes , but imprisoned where, under what conditions and more importantly what of the thousands of pedophile priest that were proven rapist that the Vatican still protects. This one seems to be the vaticans sacrificial lamb, so to speak.
WilliamLee
Level 4
Mar 14, 2019
1
Imprisoned in a prison, like any other criminal, actually. He is in solitary confinement and will be allowed to see only some other prisoners over time.
I can't comment on priests from other countries, but my post was about hope for those 'here' ie in Australia, where the rule of law trumps the Catholic church. It's a good outcome in this case.
" custodial sentence is a judicial sentence, imposing a punishment consisting of mandatory custody of the convict, either in prison or in some other closed therapeutic or educational institution, such as a reformatory, (maximum security) psychiatry or drug detoxification (especially cold turkey). As 'custodial' suggests, the sentence requires the suspension of an individual's liberty and the assumption of responsibility over the individual by another body or institution.[1] (from Wikipedia)
AlasBabylon
Level 8
Mar 13, 2019
0
Yes, but in the U.S. there are varying degrees of " custodial imprisonment. In many federal prisons ( mostly used to imprisommthe rich ) they are more like country clubs. The only comparison to prison in general is theybARE locked up. But even that is only at night. Not really that much of a punishment.
No one is concerned whether George Pell is actually guilty. Your are just happy that someone in a religious vocation will get punished. That is not a viewpoint I can agree with.
Hearsay evidence from the mother of the other supposed victim, who had died before the charge was brought, said that her deceased son had told her he had not been molested. Cardinal Pell also held a diplomatic passport from the Vatican, and it seems doubtful he would have promptly returned to face the charge if he was actually guilty. Most likely this is a serious miscarriage of justice.
doug6352
Level 7
Mar 13, 2019
0
Doug, I understand your concern, but I also want justice, not an injustice to be done. None of us has seen the statement of evidence that only the Judge, the Crown, the defence and the jury have seen. We cannot, therefore, make any assessment of the verdict of the jury. Uncorroborated evidence is not necessarily nor logically always 'unsafe'; often other evidence, for example, what the victim noticed in a room, information that can be corroborated, strengthens the case he or she makes.
There is an appeal process, and Pell's legal team has lodged an appeal.
My concern is that the powerful feel the full weight of the law as well as the weak. If Pell is innocent, well and good. But if he is still found guilty at Appeal, then we need to accept this and not second guess the courts- that helps nobody.
I think I first saw him on Q & A Australia with Richard Dawkins and really hated his answers/views. While I am sorry for the victims, I am glad that there was some sort of punishment. Loads of people in the past have gotten away without any ramifications. So small step in the right direction I guess.
realist1028
Level 3
Mar 13, 2019
1
Custodial sentence? Does that mean he gets to stay out of prison and pretend to pray about his horrible abuse? Not enough punishment in my opinion. These fucking priests need to serve time in prison!
Redheadedgammy
Level 9
Mar 13, 2019
1
A custodial sentence is the technical term for IMPRISONMENT, GOING TO GAOL.
bigpawbullets
Level 9
Mar 13, 2019
2
@Antifred
Whew!!! Fred! Have you been smoking the whacky-tabaccy?
I haven't been following the case. Six years doesn't sound like much for a sexual offense. I just heard of a bank robbery case where the thieves were sent to jail for five, ten, and twenty five years. Which is worse? This man's sexual offense or robbing a bank?
UpsideDownAgain
Level 7
Mar 13, 2019
1
Crimes against money have more lobby XD
To pirate music from someone can get more jail time than to kill that person...
The judge gave an hours explanation as to how he came to the 6 year sentence. Under Australian laws, the maximum he could give him for the worst of the 4 charges was 15 years. From that he took into consideration that these were the only abuses he was charged with either since or before his assaults. His age (77), failing health and the fact that he was held in high regard by the community for his beneficial work involved with other community programs. He was deemed to not be any further threat to society due to his age and notoriety (due to this trial). It was interesting to listen to the judge work through every thing. It was a sentence based soley within the constructs of the laws of the land. I felt that he was too lenient but that is just my opinion.
I think that no one should be convicted of a crime on the uncorroborated testimony of a single person. There is a good chance that Pell is innocent, and there is certainly a reasonable doubt.
doug6352
Level 7
Mar 13, 2019
1
With respect, unless you have read the statement of evidence it's not possible to second guess the jury's verdict. Uncorroborated evidence can still be compelling in some cases, as things stated by the victim can be corroborated even though there was no eyewitness.
@Doubting I'm sure he told a compelling story, but it should not be enough to convict, or even to have a trial. Hearsay evidence from the mother of the other supposed victim, who had died before the charge was brought, said that her son told her he had never been molested. Cardinal Pell also held a diplomatic passport from the Vatican, and it seems doubtful he would have promptly returned to face the charge if he was actually guilty. Most likely this is a serious miscarriage of justice.
@doug6352 I disagree; uncorroborated witnesses can still have the evidence they provide tested in various ways. For example, under cross examination he'd need to prove he knows the layout of the room in which the abuse took place.
Had the evidence been so flimsy as to render a guilty verdict unsafe, the Judge must, under the law, instruct the jury accordingly. He didn't.
All that said, Pell is appealing.
I am thrilled that there is a legal action to this abuse by the individuals who represent the church. They should NEVER have been allowed to get away with the molestation, and should be fully penalized to the extent of the laws. Or, better yet: allow the family and friends of victims decide upon an appropriate punishment!
Rustee
Level 7
Mar 13, 2019
3
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