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"Humans are often said to be intensely tribal. Indeed we are. But if “tribal” refers to a sense of solidarity with a large social group, the same is true of most primates. Tribalism does not distinguish us, nor does reactive aggression. It is coalitionary proactive aggression that makes our species and societies truly unusual.
Among our ancestors, coalitionary proactive violence directed at members of their own social groups enabled self-domestication and the evolution of the moral senses. Now it enables the functioning of states."

(Richard Wrangham: The Goodness Paradox: How Evolution Made Us Both More and Less Violent)

Matias 8 Mar 13
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11 comments

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I can easily relate to solidarity in the face of physical attack. I'm not half as sure about ideological solidarity. Maybe it needs to be fleshed out as to what the benefits and the disadvantages are. It's weird how it's a bit like a new civil war in America these days.

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Where is the research?

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Interesting, you may find this a good read too.
[pnas.org]

The only thing that the two do not address, which I think comes into the picture, though I have nothing more than hunch, is the effects that weapon technology has on aggression. Making inter group aggression both more dangerous to the aggressor and more likely to result in the deaths of near relatives with common genes.

@Matias it is not just that but also the stronger could also kill the weakling, but that would leave his family/tribe smaller and weaker.

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We are indeed tribal animals. But not all human groups practice coalitionary proactive aggression. Whether a group or tribe adpots such behavior depends entirely on the experiences and dominant norms, mores, and values of the group. Groups with excessively exclusionary values adopt such behavior both to prove and protect their falsely adopted "special" status.

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If we are "domesticated", then my definition of that term needs modification.

@Matias
I've flown a few times with the equivalent of chimps and/or baboons on board. That mental image though is quite striking!!!

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Surely you mean us apes, all of us, not just Homo sapien.

@Matias I'd suggest that Chimpanzees and Baboons do indeed practice this. But us 'Hoomans' have taken it to an art form.

@Matias They use peer control violence, protective violence, aggressive teaching, racial violence, by degree. Even if never met, close relatives will be friendlier and seen as less threat. Group violence is known, tribal wars over resource. We become the most foolish of the apes if we think we are all that much different from our genetic peers.

@bigpawbullets Much of that can be be put down to our numbers, Like termites, our advanced thinking is a product of the group, bigger the group more advanced the thinking. Humans are a very big group.

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It's really simple- murder everyone who doesn't think or act like you and you have more resources for those more like you. Then you have to be nice to everyone who is left, unless they deviate from the social norm. Then you need to get rid of them.

@Matias So what you are saying is that because society tends to remove perversion from themselves the state trends away from violence. It is a paradox though- The more conformist a society is the more likely they are to accept large scale atrocities, and the easier it is for violent members of that species to rise to the top to commit said atrocities.

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Among all the studies...I wonder! No society has all mentally healthy people, even if the most are non-violent! It seems the tipping point is only a short stretch away!

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I am not sure but it seems to me that at least in most major Western cultures only the remnants of tribal culture remain, the positions of power and authority are now business related, and for the most part these relationships are outside the family considered as a tribe. Position and to an extent personal success in such cultures is not guaranteed.

There are other cultures which are more strictly tribal, where social positions are given in birth, where a lowly individual may have very little chance of moving beyond the position of their birth. Life is easier on tribal members in the sense that they don't have struggle to find their way in life, certain possibilities have been predetermined for them from birth

cava Level 7 Mar 13, 2019
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"Me against my brother. My brother and I against my cousin. My brother and my cousin and I against the world." Said to be an old Arab aphorism. It would seem that "tribal" depends upon the scope.

Exactly, ""tribal" depends upon the scope." is well-stated!

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Would you explain "coalitionary proactive aggression"?

@Matias Gotcha. How about a pack of wolves? Do they display "coalitionary proactive aggression."?

@Matias On the Goodall case we mustn't jump to conclusions. The great Louis Leakey tells a story of a baboon named Proconsul in the London Zoo. People were dismayed to see the primates viciously fighting all the time and they went away with erroneous conclusions. The display was of alpha males taken from various tribes. Of course they're going to fight because a tribal order was never established.

Goodall's account might be similar in that chimps are victims of fragmentation of habitat like many other African animals.

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