Belated preface: I am not going to reply to everyone posting a response here, I do not have the time. Suffice it to say, that there seems to be a lot of people who completely missed the point, and start digging in their heels about the difference between race and culture, which is laughable, because I purposely blurred the distinction to avoid offending anyone, and it clearly shows that, some of those who responded failed to understand what I wrote as a whole, in context, and missed the whole point.
Maybe I should have simply reduced it down the 6th grade logic class.
All men are mortal.
Socrates is a man.
Socrates is mortal.
Maybe that is not accurate after all.
In fact, by today's standards, how do you prove that Socrates was a man?
Maybe he was a woman posing as a man. Or an alien.
Now let me follow up once again, with "This seems to be an instance were logic turns against itself, and is limited, because it does not weigh all of the causes and effects, how could it, in a world so variegated? Logic is a tool, but an imperfect tool, because the universe moves based on all kinds of variables, way more than can be taken into account by logic."
Would I have got the same whacked out responses had I wrote that? Perhaps someone can see just how weak the 6th grade level is in comparison though.
If you completely missed the boat on this one, do not whine to me, I am not under any obligation to write at a sheep level for anyone, especially HERE. If you want to try to pick apart what I write, you are welcome to do so, but I would expect that you at least see the whole point before you do so, but that does not seem to be the case with those who have been detracting, it appears as if they read the first paragraph, then think they have the whole gist of it . . . . You know, kind of like the christians who read one book and think they own the universe.
So the original:
From a logical or intellectual point of view, (forget the emotional, we already know were that goes), one might question the idea that anyone voicing a biased idea toward a certain culture is racist. (Now watch how many people will react emotionally . . . And no, this is NOT an attempt to justify racism, far from it.)
For example, if someone were to say that French chefs are the best, or Italian pizza is the best, doesn't that land, logically speaking within the same framework as saying something negative about a cultural group, and, hence, would it not be considered racist too, from a logical point of view? In one instance, a person is saying something positive about a culture, in another, a person is saying something negative about a culture, so from a perspective of logic, they seem to be the same.
This seems to be an instance were logic turns against itself, and is limited, because it does not weigh all of the causes and effects, how could it, in a world so variegated?
Logic is a tool, but an imperfect tool, because the universe moves based on all kinds of variables, way more than can be taken into account by logic.
As Captain Spock in Star Trek once said: "Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end."
3
Enjoy being online again!
Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.Create your free account
9 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.There seems to be a language problem here. You posit “discrimination” (noticing a perceived difference) between “cultural” traits, and ask if that is “racist.” These are not interchangeable terms. I notice that my friend John is better at basketball than I. That’s an observation of fact. John’s ancestors lived in Japan. Is my observation “racist”? More in line with your example: I do not like sashimi, while John does. While this is more of an opinion than the first example, the analysis is the same: does my observation of the fact regarding one person make me racist? I think not. Now if I were to believe that anyone who likes to eat sashimi is inferior (whatever that means) to me, that is no longer an observation of a discriminatory fact, but a “value judgment about an entire group based on insufficient evidence.” I imagine there are better definitions than that, but I think that’s a good characterization of the difference between discrimination and racism. Of course, “sashimi lovers” is not considered a “race,” so that sort of complicates things.
Rghurst
Level 5
Apr 9, 2019
0
"A mind all logic is like a knfe all blade. It makes the hand bleed that uses it."---Rabindranath Tagore, STRAY BIRDS
EduardoVallejo
Level 5
Apr 9, 2019
2
I love this quote! Thanks for sharing!!!
There is some logical fallacy to that one. "I love Italian pizza" is different from "Those greaseballs are ruining our country." I had to look up ethnic slurs, so I'm not sure how common that one is.
Stephanie99
Level 8
Apr 9, 2019
0
Culter is not the samething as race. Race are basically subspecies of humans. To be racist is to show prejudice against someone based on physical and observationial differences. Culture is more or less a byproduct of human interaction and environment. You can be prejudice against both race and culture. And sometimes it does go hand in hand. Another thing to keep in mind is intentions. People saying something positive about a culture or raceare not considered racist. This is because they don't have malicious intent.
KenWG
Level 3
Apr 9, 2019
1
In my experience, intent has nothing to do with it. Saying Asians are good at math or black people are good at sports is generally frowned upon.
Never heard of it being frowned upon. Could just be a matter of where your from. Regardless I generally, that more of an offense was take, not given kinda scenario.
Race is an artificial cultural construct. There are no “subspecies” of humans. We exist in a continuum of phenotypes; attempts to put people in defined categories has always failed. One reason that apartheid failed in S Africa was the increasingly insane system of trying to classify hundreds of phenotypes into the three arbitrary racial classes. Is a Turk “white” or “black”? Is a Peruvian “Asian” because she may have native american ancestry? Unfortunately, because such beliefs persist, we continue to pretend that race exists in order to identify bigotry and oppose it.
For starters learn the difference between race and ethnicity. Second look up the definitions of racism and ethnicism. Your logic fails and falls flat because you are conflating and equating race and ethnicity. Failed premises leads to failed conclusions. Try again.
demifeministgal
Level 8
Apr 9, 2019
1
@THHA Except that you constructed a flimsy and false analogy to try and make a bad point. You were trying to justify stereotyping visible minorities by comparing it to stereotyping cultures of people. The two are not the same thing. It is a logical fallacy, specifically a false equivalence. But, since you have an average IQ, and put so much stock in IQ scores, it is no wonder you failed to see your failed attempts at logic. ah well.
@THHA Use this for future reference to help you along. [yourlogicalfallacyis.com]
THHA:
Clearly you missed the whole point, reacted emotionally, even after I prefaced what I said with "From a logical or intellectual point of view, (forget the emotional, we already know were that goes), one might question the idea that anyone voicing a biased idea toward a certain culture is racist." It went over your head, you jumped to conclusions unfounded, then once again, in your response, you jumped to another conclusion, when you do not know a thing about me, claiming I am "justifying stereotyping minorities" . . . you have no idea who you are talking to, and clearly there is no point in conversing with a troll . . . So you can consider yourself flushed down the toilet
I guess positive racist comment is okay. I go to China and HK in a few weeks. IMO The best food in the world !! Not because the Chinese are naturally good cooks. I believe It's the best because the competition is so intense. That's the best I could do because I don't know what you were talking about.
rogueflyer
Level 8
Apr 9, 2019
1
Racism has the implication that one race is superior to another and usually implies that ones own race is superior and thus another's race is inferior. For me at least, saying Italian pizza is the best just implies that Italians created pizza and that I have a personal preference for the way it is made in Italy. Mexican's created Mexican food of which I love but I don't think that makes Hispanics superior to any other race. I just like their food. Race is superficial anyway as we're all sapiens and skin color really doesn't mean shit.
gearl
Level 8
Apr 9, 2019
3
I get where you’re coming from, but race is not culture.
indirect76
Level 7
Apr 9, 2019
0
THHA:
It was intentional. It is easier to put it in a less offensive context that way.
@THHA Race & culture are not contexts. They are separate things. There’s a correlation, for sure, but that is it.
It’s fine in my book to be critical of a culture. I’m guilty of that. Though if you blindly assume culture based on race alone, then that’s not OK.
THHA:
I did not say they were. Merriam-Webster definition of Context. "Context - the parts of a discourse that surround a word or passage and can throw light on its meaning"
@THHA Merriam-Webster and all other common dictionaries are not proscriptive. Even if we had a proscriptive definition ( [developer.mozilla.org] ) it would not help the discussion.
Why not clearly explain your point absent of context? I promise I won’t be offended.
THHA:
It is obvious. "This seems to be an instance were logic turns against itself, and is limited, because it does not weigh all of the causes and effects, how could it, in a world so variegated? Logic is a tool, but an imperfect tool, because the universe moves based on all kinds of variables, way more than can be taken into account by logic." Unfortunately, most people seem to be having a reading comprehension problem when they get to this. Either that or they are reading the first part, reacting emotionally, and skipping the last part. Interesting to say the least . . . .
@THHA That was not a clear statement.
Here’s an example of a clear statement: You are equating race & culture.
THHA:
I'm sorry, but it is clear, crystal clear. What is in quotations above is stating that logic is imperfect, and, in context (in the whole text), it is criticizing the use of logic above it as being nearly useless in some situations, because logic does not and cannot take into account all the variables involved.
@THHA It’s not crystal clear to me. What is clear is that you seem to be equating culture and race. You have an error in your premises. You have not found a flaw in logic. Logic only works when you have true premises.
Here is the precise point you make an error:
“saying something negative about a cultural group, and, hence, would it not be considered racist too”
No.
THHA:
You are equating grammatical error with logical error. "Say something about a cultural group, and, it would be considered racist too" This is the same kind of statement, only the negatives are removed. I do not follow the normal rules of grammar all the time, because fortunately, I do not allow one specific language to be my restriction when it comes to speaking. Had I said it in Russian, there would be no problem with it. But as I said, there is no logical error in that statement, and you will find that so if you look up the rules of logic in that case.
@THHA There is no grammatical error. I don’t understand what you are saying. And you seem to not understand me. Thanks for the effort though.
Enjoy being online again!
Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.Create your free account
Share this post
Categories
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.