1. Bernie is Jewish. Survey after survey have told us that America is not ready to elect a Jew, Mormon, Muslim, Hindu, atheist, or gay president. Not a black president either for another 25 to 30 years. Obama was a rare exception who came during a perfect storm. Not again any time soon.
2. Bernie has good but extravagant ideas in a wrong body. America will not elect an old looking, hunchback president. Looks matter for president, not for other offices
3. Trump will destroy Bernie in debates. Bernie fell flat and slided to #4 from #1 and #2 in the beginning. His slide has already begun.
4. Bernie is single issue candidate. That never succeeds. He can be a good HHS secretary.
5. Bernie is an old school, long time Washington insider with nothing outstanding in his achievements in his 40 year career. Nothing that stands out. People are tired of insiders.
6. Bernie has a black voter problem. No Democrat can get elected without that support. He is still booed at rallies in the South.

Conclusion: Bernie will not be president.

@St-Sinner

Brutal account. You should educate yourself more on this.

Bernie will destroy Trump actually.

Why? Because Trump won on his purporting to be the antiestablishment candidate and that proved to be a big lie.

Bernie IS the antiestablishment candidate. All Trump will have is "crazy Bernie."

I see where you get it from.

I guess we'll see ..

@Athena

1. I have been an ultra liberal all of my adult life but am also very pragmatic
2. I have watched good candidates crash. I have watched Bernie giving speeches on the Senate floor, TV interviews and read widely about him
3. He has not impressed me as presidential material
4. Bernie wants America to be like Northern Europe. It will never happen. His ideas are radical. Voters will not go for it including Democrats
5. The reason he was sidelined in 2016 (whoever did it... DNC or voters) was electability. He is not electable.
6. He is cheered only by the ultra left. That does elect president
7. Bernie is a good man, he has good ideas but he will not be president. He is ahead of his time
8. The economy is good, there is no anger against Wall Street like there was in 2016
9. Trump said repetitively that Going against Bernie would be a dream come true. Many people on both sides believe it to be true

@St-Sinner

I appreciate your time here trying to make your point. I do.

To mention Bernie's "hunchback" or that anything "Trump says" or thinks has any merit, already makes your points losing ones.

Again, we will see.

@Athena Is Bernie not bent in his back and old and old looking? Am I not stating facts? I have not written anything in a bad taste. I tried to stick to facts and real perceptions. Perceptions matter hugely in politics at this level.

@St-Sinner

What does his posture have to do with how effective he can be as a president? That's my point. What does this "fact" have to do with his policies?

@Athena
Posture has to do with everything... everything in the American Presidential election. May be not as much in Senatorial or house or other elections. American President will be the head of the only super power in the world, leader of the free world, leader of the richest nation in the world that dominates the world stage, the United Nations, funding of aid agencies and it will not be an exaggeration to say that the American President has a tremendous power at home and around the world to change the course of history.

In 1960, Nixon was a better candidate than Jack Kennedy but he lost the election (as historians have commented) because Nixon looked nervous and not presidential on TV. In the recent history, nobody looking like or even close to how Bernie looks like has been elected President. Michael Dukakis lost because how ridiculous he looked in the army tank with a helmet like on a puppet.

Now you would argue, if all of the above requirements of being the leader of the Super Power etc. are true, would it not make sense to elect a real intelligent and smart person as President? It beats me every time. My answer is I would agree with you but unfortunately the Public Psyche has been set for years. Do I like it? No, In Europe and Asia it is not important as much it has been in the U.S.

Therefore, this fact will kill his candidacy and his policies. A dead candidacy's policies will mean nothing, or will it? There have been many candidates in the past on both sides with some very good ideas but their candidacies died and policies went nowhere.

This is just my guess.... We Americans adore our way of living with crisp dressing sense, fashion sense, how to present ourselves, how we look, how we put our families on display during elections and so on. Nobody puts his or her family on display on stage like American politicians do. We also adore millionaires and billionaires more than teachers and workers. In Germany it is exactly the opposite. Education is highly respected there and even a business CEO would prefer to use "Professor" in front of his name. I know it because I lived and worked there and walked to the World's second largest software company's CEO's office one day to see if I could bump into him and talk. I was surprised that he used "Prof. Dr......" on his name plate on the office door. I asked some people how does he have time to be a professor and at his stage why it was important? I was told that education earns respect in the German society.

Now watch ahead. These people are toast sooner than later for various other reasons. Some people who love them would strongly disagree.

1. Wayne Messam
2. Seth Moulton
3. Steve Bullock
4. Marianne Williamson
5. Mike Gravel
6. John Delaney
7. Tim Ryan
8. Andrew Yang
9. Joe Sestak
10. Bill de Blasio
11. John Hickenlooper
12. Jay Inslee
13. Julián Castro
14. Cory Booker
15. Tulsi Gabbard
16. Kirsten Gillibrand
17. Amy Klobuchar
18. Tom Steyer
19. Michael Bennet
20. Beto O'Rourke

@Seeker3CO

Um... that superficial? So, how did Trump win with that atrocious hair and pursed anus mouth?

@Athena

@Seeker3CO said superficial public. There are two things about being superficial. Yes Trump is superficial and we all are superficial. We have a culture of superficiality:

1. Superficial Public - We do a lot of symbolic things instead of doing intrinsically good things that can to the recipient. Deeds speak louder than words. We have a culture of I love you, birthday cakes and balloons, greeting cards, secretaries day, mother's day, father's day, Boss's day and so on. All created to sell you things. But we hardly do things that matter to the people we like and love. We are nice around Christmas but not around the year.We say I Love You Mom but don't see you often, not around to eat dinners with her. We display photos our family in offices, politicians display families on stage in rallies and in TV interviews. That is all superficial. We have created these feel good and mostly meaningless things. If you are celebrating an employee's birthday at work, why not give him your reserved parking spot for a day or two? Why does this not happen, why spend on greetings cards instead?

2. Superficial Trump - No doubt he is superficial just like all of us. He put fake teeth, put chemical teeth whitener, possibly had some plastic surgery. He is not authentic. You may not like his hair, we do not like his meanness and hate him all he has. However, the world has recognized him that in his young age he was a very handsome man and a huge catch for women all around him. He was successful, well talking, charming, rich, tall... everything a good catch prince charming was defined and perceived as. How he was inside is a different story. But hating to include all things is denying the facts.

@St-Sinner

What I meant was, if the public is so superficial that they couldn't vote for Bernie because of his posture, how could they vote for Trump?? He is overweight, has that atrocious hair and is super ugly.

I feel like we are talking past each other.

It doesn't matter. If not certain (but mostly certain), I'm hopeful Bernie will win. Call it crazy... that's what people said when I predicted Trump would win after his very first speech!

Doubt Bernie will win. We'll see eventually.

@Athena Trump looks fantastic for 71. You women have to like a person internally but most Americans do not.

@St-Sinner

I have no idea what you just said.

@St-Sinner

Trump does not look fantastic. People make fun of his looks all the time. And Bernie is almost 80, so he looks pretty great, in my opinion. He is also super high energy... running around, taking on big corporations. He just got wage increases for 350,000 people.

You know who, over 70, actually looks fantastic?

Tom Selleck (73), Jane Fonda, Olivia Newton John, Maury Povich (80), Dustin Hoffman (81), Michael Caine (81).

People are not too superficial to vote for the person with the right policies. Trump won people over with HIS lies, and THEIR stupidity.

Trump is an ugly piece of shit, inside and out.

@Athena
When we have an extreme hate for a person, we begin not liking anything that person does, how he looks, how he talks and what he says. It is a natural reaction.

I am not talking about what progressives think of Trump. I am talking about how the world viewed him. He was considered to be very handsome, tall, successful, rich and smart.

I think Bernie has good ideas, he is passionate about them and his energy is good for this age. But it also true that he is not presidential material by demographics and looks. It does not give me pleasure to say this but it is just a fact. America is not ready to elect a Jew and a hunchback for president. It should not be like this. But sadly it is. His ideas being ahead of our time is another issue. Bernie will not be president and he will not run again in life.

@St-Sinner

We are comparing young versions now? Look at handsome Bernie.

No one thinks Trump is attractive.
Your point was that Bernie is not electable and you mentioned his hunchback. You should also be careful how you use the word "Jew" because in that context it's a pejorative term.

I think that's absolutely crazy. Presidents in the past have been really unattractive.
When people know they'll have a job, earn a decent wage and trust that a candidate will look out for their best interests, they vote for them!

@Athena
America is not ready to elect a Mormon, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Atheist or gay candidate. It has been revealed by poll after poll. It is not racist. It is a fact we most do not like.

Bernie or Buttigieg will not be president.

@Athena
The comparison is simple. Just show the two pictures to 10 young women and 10 men outside America who do not know either and see what answers you will get.

I am trying give you an objectives opinion but you don't accept. Let us say we both are biased.

@Athena
"Presidents in the past have been really unattractive."

American presidents since Kennedy have not been unattractive. They were not great looking but not unattractive, at least not as much as Bernie looks today. America has a thing about good looks in president, it is different from how Europe or Asia thinks.

@Athena

"When people know they'll have a job, earn a decent wage and trust that a candidate will look out for their best interests, they vote for them!"

Not true. Voters vote for the messenger first and ideas next. Voters vote for stability, security and prosperity. Great ideas have died many times even in the primaries.

@St-Sinner

Well, tell all this to all establishment pansies who are spreading lies about Bernie, including the establishment bought mainstream media.
They are so terrified of Bernie being elected that they spend all their days trying to sabotage him.

Smells like real fear that a Jewish hunchback can win after all.

@Athena

Destroying is what happens in politics. Nothing new. The question is who will conquer and survive the attacks. Professor Bernie has the crazy ideas, looks and persona to be a great target.

Bernie will not be president. He will fizzle in the primaries.

@St-Sinner

You are very good at missing the point.

@Athena

I think hard to be objective. Looking at both sides gives me a balanced view and helps me go in the right direction. I don't get emotional or carried away with passions. I always stop and think. I am not impulsive.

I read everything you said. But please note Bernie's package of being Jewish, old looking, a hunchback, pie-in-the-sky ideas with weird punitive taxation is unsellable. Bernie will not be president.

I want to have the best health care, free college and stop the outrageous looting and control of the rich in this country but I know Bernie is not the person who can deliver it. The messenger is the problem here.

The best thing Bernie is doing is he is breaking out a new and brave discussion on the issues and it will change the direction of the political discourse of the future.

As a tribute to his work though, I recommend hanging Bernie's photo in the hallway of his elementary school in Vermont.

@St-Sinner

I apologize for my last comment to you. It was unnecessarily snarky.

I do think we have been talking past each other here.

I think our positions on this are clear though.
You have your reasons for believing Bernie is not electable and I have mine for thinking he will win.

Thank you for participating so civilly in this debate!

Isn’t Warren ready to throw open the doors..?

Weird, I’ve long heard, ‘the nation votes for the tallest candidate.’ E.W. appeared childlike in stature at the debates.. It’s been a long time since I didn’t either have a favorite, or watch one emerge. Very disappointing

@Varn Elizabeth Warren is not a single issue candidate, she will deliver most value. But if not her, Trump is better than other mellow and useless candidates.

@St-Sinner Liz I love. But Wow! Just Wow!

Anybody but Bernie assures a Trump win. The corporate media are doing all they can to ignore or attack Bernie, that's why he is running behind this time. Last time he caught the media and the Dem leaders by surprise, this time they are ready for him. The crowded field means no one will win on the first ballot at the convention, so, just like last time, the superdelegates will pick the Dem nominee on the second ballot and will choose a centrist like Biden or Harris. The rules changes on superdelegates that Bernie won will prove useless this time.

@TomMcGiverin
Bernie is doomed and he puts me to sleep.

@St-Sinner Good for you. I find it exciting whenever I run across someone who is honest and can't be bought. To each their own....

@TomMcGiverin
I am not a wolf in sheep's skin. I am the wolf.

@St-Sinner Whatever. Enjoy the block.

@St-Sinner

Does he? You seem like you're already asleep.

Not even the LGBTQ community is in favour of Buttigieg.

@Athena That is a problematic statement. The field is still large. We LGBTQ community types are certainly not monolithic, and there is still no one candidate who has "captured" the lion share of LGBTQ support. He is getting more LGBTQ publication press than most. Just sayin.'
Again, he is only my second or third choice at present, but I still am planning to ultimately support whichever Dem wins the final nomination.