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For any Trump supporters out there, assuming that Trump is the Republican candidate for president in 2020, I am willing to put up $20.00 today on a wager that -- no matter who the Democratic candidate is, Trump will not draw more than 43 percent of the popular vote for president in the 2020 general election. Any Trumpite with the courage of his or her convictions out there? If so, and if Hippiechick is willing to hold the money for us until the results are ou tin November 2020let's place out bets today. Any suckers out there willing to make that bet?

wordywalt 8 Sep 10

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Trump stinks, but could win with 43% of the popular vote. What is your point?

Your statement is false and absurd. There is no way in hell that the idiot could win with 43 percent of the vote. If you think he could win, put your money where your mouth is.

@wordywalt How does it feel to be a total misfit? Start by looking up what percent of the popular vote Clinton had when he won. Then follow up by counting ONLY small populated States and how easily they can add tp to 270 Electoral College votes.

Are you as dumb as you write?

@Bobby9 You just proved that you have nothing more of any rationality or intelligence to offer in this exchange, as you have chosen to resort to your last and most inappropriate weapon -- insults. How does it feel to be beaten? Thanks for the admission that you behavior shows.

@Bobby9 Let's compare indicators of intelligence. I have an IQ of 145, a graduate degree, a successful professional career, over 20 professional articles published, and state and national recognition for my work. And, what are your indicators of your intelligence? I think you lose yet again.

@Bobby9 Your math is terrible. That might work with 48.0 percent, but it sure as hell will not for 43.0 percent.

@wordywalt Prove your bullshit statement. You are totally wrong. I notice also you didn't find what Clintons popular vote was. Try honesty.

@wordywalt Let's say you are full of it. We have no way of proving your stated I.Q. What is your grad degree in, and from what University? What was your professional career? Are you one of those that could not do so you taught?

Even if you had a 180 IQ. and had been published a thousand times that would be irrelevent to that FACT that one can win the Presidency with a 43% popular vote, and in fact it has been done.

You claimed education obviously did you no good.

Want to compare net worth?

@wordywalt No insult. You post was dumb, merely asking if you are as dumb as you write in not an insult, it is a question. One can write "dumb" yet not be dumb so the question is not an isult. One with your claimed I.Q. should know that.

@Bobby9 Your shit games do not work. In effect you are refusing to compare indicators of intelligence and trying to shift the game. You lost another round.

@Bobby9 The absolute only way that Trump could win with 43 percent is if there were a third party drawing votes away from the Democrats. People learned last time. It ain't gonna happen again. Again, you lost that round.

@Bobby9 What makes my statement "dumb"? Provide your grounding for that assertation You cannot. How many rounds is this that you have lost?

@wordywalt Look up what CLinton's popular vote was each time he won, then you'll see the statement was dumb.

I've lost nothing except time reading your pompous, and unproven statements. Try honesty with yourself.

@wordywalt Now, since you apparently refuse to look up the popular vote (and percentage thereof) Clinton had I'll tell you it was EXACTLY 43.3%.

You or anyone who cares to can easily Google and verify that.

So, take your claimed brilliance and sneek away. You should also apologize.

@Bobby9 In Bill Clinton's case, there were substantial third party votes in both elections, just as I asserted would be a requirement to with 43 percent. Again you try to attack without all the facts, and you lose again. . I am tiring of your inept and irrational argumentation.

@wordywalt You don't think very well for a person with your claimed IQ. Irrespective of that fact that there was a third party candidate, in order for Clinton to win he still had to get 270 Electoral votes. So if Clinton could get at least 270 Electoral votes (actually he got much more) then Trump could also get 270 Electoral vote with only 43.3% of the popular vote.

Your argumet is wrong, you are wrong, and I personally think your clained IQ is a load of crap. If it isn't, you certainly don't use it very well because the statemet I made above PROVES ONE CAN WIN THE PRESIDENCY WITH ONLY 43.3% OF THE POPULAR VOTE, and it proves you don't think through replies very well.

@wordywalt See above, your reply was INEPT, as I proved. The third party candidate is irrelevant because if Clinton could get >270 Electoral votes with only 43.3%, the ANYBODY can, with our without a third party candidate.

You aren't very smart at all.

@Bobby9 As usual, you have not proved a damned thing. All that you is to assert that you have. "It don't fly." Another loss And, in 1996, there were 3 other parties on the ballot -- libertarian, Nader's party, and Perot's party. I repeat: There will not be a substantial third party vote this time unless it is a libertarian challenge, which would draw votes from the idiot Trump.l

@Bobby9 A totally inappropriate comparison which lacks a sound basis. You seem to be like Trump, in that you cannot admit that you are wrong.

@wordywalt YOU NEED TO REREAD. Since Clinton got the required 270 Electoral votes with only 43.3% of the vote, that proves anyone can win with only 43.3% of the popular vote. Whether or not there is a third part candidate is irrelevant!!! the FACT that 43.3% of the popular vote can garner 270 Electoral votes is what matters.

If you can't understand that, you are not very smart.

@wordywalt If you really want to make me show you have no clue, continue with your absurd remarks. It will be EASY to show how the 30 least populated States can get to 270 electoral votes, while the other 20 FAR exceed thier actual popular votes.

Do you have a clue how the Electoral College works??

@wordywalt You sound defensive, and without fact.


"Put your money where your mouth is."

I've seen this from you a few times. I'm not sure how many people are willing to wager with internet strangers, Walt.

so long as we have a trustworthy intermediary, I am willing to take that chance. I have never met Hippiechick, but from a year of watching her words and actions on this tie, I am willing to trust her as an intermediary. She is an educated and moral veteran, mother and grandmother. .

@wordywalt K

@maturin1919 What in the hell does "K" mean?


I wouldn’t bet with you liberals under any circumstances as you people are to untrustworthy. If you want to bet I’m sure Los Vegas will take your bet but Trump is favored to win.

And you are lying like crazy. There is no reason to trust ethnocentrists, bigots, racists and white nationalists, and reactionary right wing ideologues. . They have already proved that they are without conscience.

I never trust anyone who claims superiority but can't use the proper 'too'.

@maturin1919 That really doesn't matter two much.

@Bobby9 Sure does when you're king shit in your own mind.

@maturin1919 I guess you didn't see the "two" IT WAS A JOKE!!! However I agree that wordywalt thinks he is superior, when in fact he is a clown.


This would be a foolish wager because Congress is going to put in office the person that is going to make them the most money regardless of what the populations wants.

Huh? Congress does not elect the president of the USA.

@wordywalt Are you kidding me?

@azzow2 Have you ever read the U.. Constitution?

@wordywalt Keep in the dark the people are controlled, just because a piece of parchment has some rules on it. Do you really think a bunch of people that conned and lied to get to where they are going to follow the rules? Most of Congress is made up of attorneys and people that practice law, those people are experts at twisting and bending the rules.

@azzow2 You still show no comprehension of the electoral process.

@wordywalt Sure it works by all candidates from every party pouring hundred of millions into advertising and coughing lies lies so people believe their B.S then Congress choose who they want appoints them then let's the opposing parties spend hundreds of millions of dollars trying to put law suits on the sitting president. If Congress spent even 1/3 of their 9 months in session actually working on problems instead of wasting money perhaps our society would improve.

@wordywalt You don't either, you can't count Electoral votes.


I'm not sure the other bettor is the sucker here, but I'd certainly be one to enter into a wager with someone I don't know and let another unknown hold my money.

It's only $20. I have bigger swings playing .05/.1 NL Hold 'em.


If we’re lucky, and I think that’s a pretty big “if”, the backlash against Trumpism may motivate enough swing voters to deliver a victory to the Democrats, if a genuine progressive can somehow manage to take the primary away from the machine. But the voters are clearly over the establishment on both sides - Biden can’t do what Hillary couldn’t do, just like Jeb couldn’t do for the Republicans. Looks like it’s Bernie or Trump.

skado Level 8 Sep 11, 2019

Polls say that Biden, Warren, and Bernie all can beat Trump handily, and that Warren has the least negative ratings of the three in sectors that supported Trump.

Polls said Hillary would win.

@skado She did win the popular vote. But, this time, Trump will not carry a single big population state other than Texas. More than enough people are realizing just how stupid, corrupt and destructive the idiot Trump is. And, this time people realize just how much a third party can draw away from the main candidates, and it will not happen again this time.

I hope you’re right about Trump. I think Sanders can beat him but Biden won’t.

@wordywalt Warren is a screwball left wing idiot and will never beat Trump.

@Trajan61 Sure thing, grampa. I hope you shook your angry fist at her from your porch after posting.

@Trajan61 You are out of your damned mind. Put your money where your screwball big mouth is.

@maturin1919 What is that rambling bit of verbal garbage supposed to mean?

Funny thing... that’s what a lot of people said about Trump, right before he won. (minus the left wing part)

@wordywalt Fortunately most people aren’t nearly as stupid and radical as you are!

@Trajan61 Like most empty-headed reactionaries, when you run out of anything to say that sounds at all intelligent, you simply resort to insults. When you do that, have, in effect, admitted that I have won this exchange. I have seen this pattern a few hundred times before. Thank you!

@wordywalt You liberals do a lot of insulting.

@Trajan61 Again, you provide no facts or rational thought supporting your position. You continue to prove that your stance is untenable.

@wordywalt He didn't last time either. You aren't too sharp on facts are you?


Lacking an obvious choice this cycle, and though a Dem should win, without the US Senate … it will be mitch all over again.. Anyone not voting Democrat deserves what they get. The rest of us, including our former allies and the planet, don’t.

Varn Level 8 Sep 11, 2019

In a democracy we all deserve what we get.


If the DNC would allow the voters to choose their candidate, they could beat Trump, but they didn’t last time, and I see no signs they will this time. The Democrats’ noses are now as browned by corporate money as the Republicans’ so they would rather see Don take another four years than to let their corporate masters suffer the reforms that a true representative of the people would effect.

skado Level 8 Sep 11, 2019

Continued false equivalency?

If you didn’t make the rules … and you can’t change them.. Do you play, or not? Discouraging others is not what’s needed ..but it’s easy, perhaps even tempting … so apparently, it continues 😟

Not sure what false equivalency you’re referring to. Being realistic is not discouraging to me. It establishes a firmer platform from which to fight than empty optimism could. Of course you play, but you play with the facts, not with dreams.

@skado Claiming one party or candidate is equal to another … when one is evil beyond comparison..

Realistic is apparently in the eye of the beholder. But after decades of ignoring rules, dumping regulations, reversing laws, receiving billions (more) from industry, and pandering to the worst among us … reality appears to me that the good guys are losing ..and need our help, not ridicule.

Put your money where your mouth is.

Oh. Well I’m not at all claiming they’re equal. The Ds are somewhere in the territory of the moderate republicans of the 50s, 60s, and maybe 70s, and the Rs are now entering the territory of unapologetic fascism. The point is, the whole system has drifted too far to the right, and if you’re still supporting establishment Democrats just because they’re not Republicans, you’ve been tricked into voting for a rightist agenda.

I’m not ridiculing the good guys; I’m saying the good guys aren’t being allowed in the game at all. By all historical standards the US is no longer a democratic republic. We are now an oligarchic republic at best, drifting dangerously close to totalitarianism. The middle class and poor have effectively zero influence over governmental policy-making, because we have no one representing our interests.

Voting for the lesser evil is still voting for evil, and further enables the rightward drift. The good guys do need our help; they need us to recognize that the people dominating the Democratic Party today are not good guys.

I don’t claim to know the future; I’m just reporting how it appears to me right now.

@Varn The parties are equal in a few key areas. Namely that both are bought and paid for by corporate interests.

Once we get past (lol) the silliness that is 'these guys are good because the others are bad', we might actually do something.

Short of that (and that ain't happening any time soon), I'd recommend sharpening and greasing your guillotine and then putting it to work.

@maturin1919 so much for the tolerant left...

@MissKathleen "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.”

-Thomas Jefferson

@skado Not spending all my time around here.. and looking at the larger picture, whomever the D’s come up with must sell, not only to the rest of the D’s, but to the Independents ..or vacillating voters across the nation. Inspiration may again need to come ‘from the alternative,’ trump. This time they’d better not leave it up to the rest of us.

The good guys lost, decades ago. Previous rules & regulations are gone, thanks to both Republican Supreme Court decisions and legislation. The good guys didn’t give up, but were forced to compete on a new plain - one dominated by the R’s.

The middle class & poor were and continue to be duped. They’ve had - and continue to have - fresh opportunities to take it back and set things straight. And, taking it back will be as incremental a process as it was taken away, requiring decades, not just years. Just as the koch bros played the long game, so must the middle class & poor. It’s do, or die.

There’s no such thing as Perfection in politics, and ‘everyone’s personal preferences’ will never be fulfilled. It (fortunately) remains a majority project. I’ve helped recruit numerous D’s - they were not evil. ...and I’ve a low tolerance for those who talk the talk - but have never walked the walk

I personally know an upper echelon D; he’s not only a friend, but a magnificently generous & intelligent person … with nothing to show for his effort but the gratitude of those who are also part of the parties inner workings.. I’d wanted to become a cop, and from those I met and knew, sometimes they must get as down & dirty as those they go up against, or lose their lives. Elections that include R’s are much the same..

@maturin1919 See above...

@Varn I'll direct you to do the same.


This is only my own personal opinion, but if the democratic nominee doesn't have the support of the millennials then the democratic nominee will not win the general election. And I think we all know who the millennial's favorite is.


If popular vote mattered for anything, Dems would control all 3 branches of government. The senate "majority" represents about 43% of voters, because USA was built on dumb ideas that haven't aged well.

I agree with most of that but not sure about the dumb part. Maybe good ideas that are in need of updating? What ideas would be better?

What "dumb ideas" was the USA built on? Hard to build an idiot proof form of government.

@skado, electoral college, Senate compromise, both need revamping or elimination. We have a situation where the minority is the tyrant, and we're expected to just sit back and take our punishment, because of a government created for 13 states.


If there are no 3rd party candidates, Trump will win with ~50% of the popular vote.

The competition from the Democrats is too weak.

BD66 Level 7 Sep 11, 2019

You are out of your mind!

@wordywalt Trump is at 47% approval in the Rasmussen Polls, and that's with the press slamming him 24/7. When it comes down to debate time, and it's Trump against one Democrat, and the Democrat is promoting policies like:


Open borders
Sanctuary cities
Free healthcare for illegals
Drivers licenses for illegals
Free college for illegals

Trump will seem like the more rational of the two:

@BD66 You are simply lying. If you believe that, put your money where your mouth is.

@wordywalt, @BD66 Wordy, You are a piece of work. BD is expressing an opinion. That by simple definition cannot be a lie. Yea sure you are a high IQ guy. Sure you are.

@Bobby9 I tire of your illogic and belligerence. You are not wasting time on. I will not waste my time even looking at any further comments from you.

@wordywalt You really mean you are backed into a corner. Take some advice, go back to school and learn math, you are terrible at it.

@wordywalt, @BD66 Since you are so fond of saying "put your money where your mouth is", I'll bet you any amount of money you care to wager that I can mathematically prove a candidate can win the Presidency with only 43% of the Popular vote when only that candidate and one other is running in the election.

Your turn to put up or shut up.

@wordywalt Since you haven't put up, apparently you've decided to shut up. Smart move.


I’ve always said from the get go, that Trump will win, no matter who the democratic candidate is. I hate the thought of him being President, but I’d wager he will win. Just to be clear: I in no way support Republicans.

Thgere are more than enough people who supported Trump the first time who have learned their lesson: " Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

@wordywalt No necessarily. No one expected Trump to win, but I predicted that he would win. There is plenty of prejudice in the USA, and he panders to all of it.

@MissKathleen This time is different. Too many people are seeing who he really is and how much damage he can do -- and their numbers will continue to increase.

@wordywalt don’t count on it.

@MissKathleen You right, in one sense. We can't count on it. We MUST make it happen!


I hope your right but I got burnt the last election and I'm not so cocky anymore.

gearl Level 7 Sep 11, 2019

It is up to us to make sure that it does not happen again.


Not stupid unless election fraud


I believe who is chosen as the democratic candidate will matter!

I believe that any of the top four Democratic candidates, if they run intelligent and convincing campaigns, will whomp his ass!

Biden can’t beat Trump.

@skado Put your money where your mouth is.

I do every day. Food is expensive!

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