"true" Panchen Lama??????

@Senex they kidnapped the old one back in the 90's an then made their own. the dalai is getting up there and says he may not be succeeded.

@JeffMesser Yes but the whole concept of born again lamas is inherently ludicrous don't you think?

@Senex well thats a rather loaded comment senex. do I believe in rebirth? reincarnation? the identifying process? the upanishads? I'm not sure what answer would satisfy you. I am an astika hindu so I don't consider the idea of rebirth to be so ludicrous.

@JeffMesser I'm afraid I believe that all that stuff is as loony as scientology.

@Senex agree, reincarnation, rebirth and all other similar crap is complete bullshit, totally unproven, nonfactual and baseless.

@Senex loony? how is it loony? @Mofo1953 baseless? that's lunacy. it most certainly has a base. I'd suggest you both learn something about it before making such statements.

@Senex @Mofo1953

really?

[psychologytoday.com]

@Metahuman a few strange cases do not proof anything.

@Metahuman, @JeffMesser prove your point, or is it lunacy to ask? And what metahuman posts isn't considered proof of anything except perhaps a very powerful imagination, or a high degree of suggestability, cientific evidence cannot be proven like that by a few cases difficult to explain or that are anectdotal cashed in by one shrink who wantsbto be a writer. Why don't you talk about the other ludicrous beliefs of rebirth and reincarnation? That you have to be good to be more perfect in a future life and if you are bad you are "demoted" to a lower life form. Sorry, that's ridiculous and ludicrous. Now you are going also to believe in Nostradamus and some of his "predictions" coming true or in the Virgin of Lourdes who appeared to some kids in Europe and now there's a huge shrine visited by millions or the Virgin of Guadalupe in Mexico or the figure of Jesus in a toast. Yep, that's proof enough for you guys. Puhleeze!

@Mofo1953 if your theory or lack thereof doesn't explain everything then you cannot dismiss other narratives. especially just because they don't appeal to your myopic narrative. that's just being in denial.

@Mofo1953 by the way ... where did that "scientific method" originate? be thorough in your research. then, when you figure out it came from the Hindu, you may return and apologize.

@JeffMesser Life's too fucking short for that nonsense.

@Mofo1953 You must be right: you agree with me

@Mofo1953 you certainly have a lot of angst. I never said it was proof. But it does do one thing, it refutes your statement that it's complete bullshit and baseless.

There are more than a few. There are thousands of these documented cases. And they're more than weird, they are very compelling. It would appear to me based on your statement that it's just do the suggestion or imagination that you didn't actually read any of this or do your due diligence.

Stop putting words in my mouth. You're telling me what I think about issues that aren't even in hand? As far as that goes I haven't stated what my position or belief is on this topic. I simply pointed out that there is in fact evidence to suggest that reincarnation is real . Evidence. Not proof . Address the point and quit trying to strawman this by bringing up things that we're not even discussing.

Furthermore, your argument boils down to you just think the idea is stupid, which is hardly scientific.

It wasn't long ago that to suggest that a particle could be in two places at the same time would be thought stupid, or that one particle could influence another one light years away instantaneously was ridiculous. The Universe is a really really weird place.

@Metahuman again, there is no evidence, but if you want to believe in bs, hey knock yourself out. To me it is bs and pure unadulterated crap, anything that's not backed by evidence, valid evidence is just wishful thinking or, to me, crap. And BTW, that is not angst, it's called not being gullible.

@JeffMesser you are using false equivalencies, under your pov if jewish scientists for example, developed some kind of scientific method, then the jewish religious crap must be true, again you want to believe in bs, go and repeat your mantras until dead, who the fuck cares, not me. But I don't believe in stupid crap, and don't assume shit, my first wife was a Buddhist and I know all there is to know about it, Sidharta Gautama, Nirvana and some philosophies that are appealing, but the reincarnation, rebirth crap is hokey, and conveniently happens only after dead, so there is no way to prove shit, like the christian crap about eternal life, all bullshit, but billions eat up that shit exactly like you're eating the reincarnation crap. All I can say is, bon appetit dude.

@Senex I know I am.

@Mofo1953 all I hear is "hokey" and "crap". for a group that's supposed to be against unsubstantiated claims that seems rather flimsy. if you have nothing other than hokey and crap then I will stick with reasonable theories.

@Mofo1953 I showed you evidence. If you choose not to accept it because you have a bias for some emotional reason hey knock yourself out. Once again I'm not making the claim of belief, that's an assumption that you're making, and you should really quit making assumptions.

@Metahuman Yes. You're much cleverer than I am.

@Senex apparently.

@Metahuman I don't understand how people who profess to be intelligent think they can afford to be so close-minded when they know their knowledge is limited. I find this stance to be rather juvenile and uninformed.

@Metahuman, @JeffMesser that's your problem, you only hear what you want to hear but dismiss the fact that you are using false equivalencies, typical of people who only want to hear what they want to hear and close their eyes and mind to reality, exactly like the brainwashed religious people that do not need evidence and rejectr it based on the crap called faith. Only you believe the book you give reference to is a "reasonable theory" it isn't even a theory and much less reasonable, actually it's a book not a cientific study, none of it stands as cientific or reputable, it doesn't even resist logic. Any reasonable skeptic would call your belief nonsensical, except you of course and the other believers in reincarnation and rebirth. Ridiculous.

@JeffMesser, @Metahuman you speak of assumptions, and then proceed to assume I have some emotional reason behind my skepticism, who assumes then? Conclusions based on nothing but your own "evidence"is worthless, I told you why that book is not evidence, but you choose to ignore that and logic, and instead stubbornly defend your lunacy talking about different things that have nothing to do with the discussion, like the cientific method being developed in India oryour assumptions of some emotional bias that you came up with, so I ask you, who is the one closing eyes to evidence? It's the man in the mirror. lease, don't waste my time any longer.

@Mofo1953 when you're so myopic and close-minded then your denial carries no credibility.

@JeffMesser more assumptions from the dude that doesn't want to see.

@Mofo1953 lol, you realize you're talking to two different people here right?

@Metahuman no shit Sherlock

@Mofo1953 I made one point.

Which is that there is in fact evidence for reincarnation.

Even people writing for the James Randi Foundation admit that this is so, although they don't think that it's the greatest or most compelling evidence. Buts it exists, and its evidence, nonetheless.

Your rant against what I'm saying is mixing what other people are saying along with your assumptions about whatever you think I believe and that is based on nothing more than your imagination, and is conflated nonsense.

I never said anything about the scientific method being developed in India.

You, sir, are an asstard. Have fun with that. I'm done with this.

By the way, spelling and grammar checks are available on most devices.

@Mofo1953 I was the one who said the scientific method originated in India. It was actually hindustan overall since the method is vedic and hindu in nature. But saying India is close enough.

@Metahuman I don't expect people around here to believe in reincarnation. But to say that any thoughts about it are completely baseless is rather uninformed.

@JeffMesser I know. I get where you're coming from. My mission is to attack fundamentalism. Of any kind.

@Metahuman I am a seeker. I seek the truth and I believe that the views of thinkers from thousands of years ago still have some merit.

@JeffMesser oh, I as well. I tend to believe those who are seeking the truth, and I doubt those who have found it.

@Metahuman the coolest thing I have found ... so far all of the "5 factors for this" and "7 things for that" I have found in vedic beliefs have turned out to be actual, physical effects just explained in a way other than how we organize and understand in the west. It's taking me a really long time to understand the hindu concepts of secular philosophy by removing first all of the mysticism attributed to the effects (which are actually just science). I have gone back to the original sanskrit and worked to interpret the very words in my own context as well as theirs. I really see advaita vedanta as a sound explanation of the universe from a purely physical perspective. I think it's the original.

@Metahuman you made no point, I was trying to save time ny replying to you and Messer, randi is a magician so if his foundation says there is evidence then it must be true, wow now a magician passes for cientific evidence, do you hear yourself? Amazing, a skeptic magician who debunks spiritists and other wackos who believe crap similar to what you believe, and I doubt they even did so, is now passed by you and you only plus Messer as science, who is the asstard? Someone who doesn't believe in things thare are not proven and or backed by science? Or tweedly dee and tweefly dumb who believe in unproven crap and use idiotic nonsensical "evidence" that they made up as cientific??? BTW, why don't you two get a room and blow each other, perhaps in your next life you both will be reborn as more perfect idiots.

@Mofo1953 if how you act is an example of the personas embodied in your beliefs or lack thereof then I suspect near any option would be preferable. hence the presumption lies against your boorishness.

@JeffMesser great, I act this way only when confronted with people who believe in bullshit, it is great that you prefer to wallow in shit because that is your belief, go pray your mantras now, try to use your brain to think for once and wish you become a better more intelligent man if what you believe is true, doubt it but hey, maybe next life you will be less of a gullible idiot.

@Mofo1953 when you think you know and have experienced enough to dismiss things completely then your education is lacking and your experience is minimal.

@JeffMesser yeah, sure, keep on believing that, it won't be the first grossly wrong belief you have. There's also proof that pigs fly, you know, I saw a film about it so it definitely has to be true like your reencarnation rebirth thing.

I don't see Cthulhu either.
The great old ones will be very displeased.

Old Time Religion (Arlo Guthrie/Pete Seeger

@LimitedLight - Holy cow, no! I had to look up "William Painter." I can't afford those. These are cheap sunglasses from Walgreens. I don't think they make them anymore. All plastic now.