6 4

What I have gathered to date (11-24-19) regarding Trump's Ukraine escapades:

  1. Trump had/has an unofficial, shadow Ukraine policy designed to serve himself personally.

  2. Trump's shadow policy undermined US national security and empowered a dangerous adversary, Vladimir Putin's Russia. (See the compelling testimony of Ambassador William Taylor before Congress.)

  3. Trump personally directed his shadow policy through his personal lawyer Rudolf Giuliani, Trump-donor/E.U. Ambassor Gordon Sondland, and others.

  4. Ambassador William Taylor's staffer David Holms  overheard Trump ask Sondland in a phone call about the bogus investigations into the Bidens and the equally bogus claim that Ukraine hacked the 2016 US election. Sondland told Trump Ukrainian President Zelensky "loves your ass" and "will do anything you want him to."

  5. Gordon Sondland testified under oath that there was a quid pro quo, and that Trump personally directed him to work with Giuliani.

  6. Giuliani communicated the terms of the quid pro quo to Sondland: the Ukrainian government had to publicly announce investigations into the Bidens and purported Ukrainian meddling in the 2016 US election in exchange for 391 million dollars in military aid.

  7. Sondland testified that he told to a top aide to Ukraine's President Zelensky that the release of military aid was conditioned on such announcement of the investigations Trump wanted.

  8. Sondland testified that Vice President Mike Pence, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, Whitehouse Acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney, National Security Adviser John Bolton; Bolton's deputy, Fiona Hill; and Timothy Morrison, who replaced Hill, were all "in the loop" (i.e. knew that Trump was trying to pressure the Ukrainian government into launching bogus investigations against Trump's domestic political rival)

  9. Trump's "perfect" phone call to the President of Ukraine, where he asked for an investigation of his political rival, was nothing less than thinly-veiled extortion. The founding fathers would have called it "bribery."

  10. Whitehouse staff recognized that the call memo represented evidence of a crime, and they tried to cover it up by storing it in a server reserved for highly sensitive, classified intelligence.

  11. A sanitized version of the call memo was only released after the whistleblower came forward.

  12. National Security Counsel staffer Col. Alexander Vindman testified under oath that the call transcript released by the Whitehouse was not complete; it left out key phrases referring to the Bidens.

  13. Col. Vindman testified that on the call, Trump ignored recommended anti-corruption talking points that were cleared through the NSC staff for the president, instead focussing on the Bidens.

  14. Career foreign service officer and Pence staffer Jennifer Williams also has firsthand knowledge of the infamous Trump-Zelensky phone call. She testified under oath that Trump's references to the Bidens were inapproriate and political in nature, not diplomatic.

  15. Trump's Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney admitted to reporters that it had been the Administration's intent to extract a favor in exchange for military assistance funds and a Whitehouse visit for the Ukranian President. He told us all to "get over it."

  16. Trump's phone call with Ukraine's President Volednymyr Zelensky was only a small part of a months-long effort to extort a political favor from a foreign government.

  17. The funds authorized by Congress for Ukrainian defense against Russian aggression were held back by Trump for three months, and were finally released only after the Whitehouse learned there was a whistleblower.

  18. Trump and his cronies (minions) carried out a smear campaign against US Ambassador Marie Yovanovich so they could execute Trump's shadow policy without interference.

  19. Trump attempted to intimidate Ambassador Yovanovich even as she was testifying before Congress.

  20. Trump continues trying to intimidate witnesses by calling the whistleblower a "traitor," calling for his/her name to be released, and intimating the he or she should be executed ("You know what we used to do with traitors..." )

  21. Many dedicated public servants have come forward to confirm the whistleblower's account, in spite of the President's threats.

  22. Trump's latest abuse of office is only part of a wide-ranging pattern of criminal behavior stretching back decades.

  23. To the extent that he can, Trump is preventing Whitehouse officials from testifying. And he refuses to release pertinent records to Congress. These actions not only indicate that he hast something to hide, they also constitute obstruction of justice.

  24. Every time Republican Congressmen Deven Nunez (CA) and Jim Jordan (OH) open their mouths to muddy the waters and confuse the issue in defense of Trump, they insult the intelligence of every American citizen.

  25. Ukraine expert Dr. Fiona Hill thoroughly debunked the Republican defense of Trump, calling out GOP members of the Intelligence Committee for their cynical invocation of Russian-generated conspiracy theories that claim it was Ukraine that hacked the 2016 US election.

  26. Contrary to claims by Republican defenders of Trump, the Ukrainian government did feel pressured by Trump to meddle in US politics. Ambassador William Taylor testified, "I know that the Ukrainians were very concerned about the security assistance, and I know that they were prepared or preparing to do - to make a public statement that is with a CNN interview, that that was being planned."

  27. Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut, who sits on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, met with Zelensky in September.

In a letter to House investigators, Murphy detailed a conversation he had with the Ukrainian president regarding his concerns over efforts by Trump's personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, to get Ukraine involved in US domestic politics.

Murphy wrote: "President Zelensky said he understood, and represented to us that he had no desire to interfere in a US election. I interpreted Zelensky's answer to my question as a concession of the premise of my question --- that he was receiving improper overtures from Giuliani to interfere in the 2020 election."

Senator Murphy went on: Zelensky "did not contradict the facts I laid out in my question, and instead simply relayed his desire to say clear of becoming enmeshed in American politics." Murphy added that he interpreted this as "confirmation that Zelensky was indeed feeling the pressure I described."7

Flyingsaucesir 7 Nov 24

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Excellent summation of facts. You addressed the timeline succinctly, with the most pertinent facts. I’ve watching/listening too. The latest, with his pardoning of Seal represents to me that he’s gathering string of strongmen for his team, mobstyle, while the sheeple watch in rapture as the “movie” plays out. Trump rises in power by destroying govt checks & balances in increments. Those persons brave, intelligent & dedicated enough to come forward in the fight for all of our rights are being publicly slandered/blacklisted, & the heroes stepping forward and standing up might loose all that they have for following legal code of ethics & rule of law to fight high crimes & treason. The whistleblowers, & we as citizens are not allowed to protect ourselves. He is destroying courts & legal system. These past 20 years leading the promotion of labels such as “emotional intelligence” and of “intelligent design” actually define popular culture’s loss of respect for critical thinking & logic. Social engineering is allowing the likes of Trump to herd voters and gullible true believers in cult like fashion. He is leading a moneyed takeover of our govt. by foreign business interests, and is grinding us into the ground from sea to shining sea. I see him as Hoover, Hitler, using fear & propaganda and currying hatred to motivate masses.

Thanks for your intelligent analysis! Where I have only provided a summary of the facts you have distilled them into a potion to foretell the future. And it's a bleak and scary prospectus. I don't disagree with your assessment. However, I think there is still a good chance that American institutions (like rule of law, democratic elections, etc., will withstand this stress test. Remember, Donald J. Trump is essentially a coward and a dolt. The immigration issue, while important, is being used to distract us all from more pressing issues like climate change and the widening gap between the haves and the have-nots. It is possible that the truth will become apparent to a critical mass and we will oust this pack of miserable, mangy curs from power. Half the country already sees that this emperor has no clothes. All we need is a few percent more to have the scales removed from their eyes. And as time goes on the facts on the ground (and in the air and water) will become more visible to more people. Also remember that the core of Trump's base is evangelical Christians, who are predominantly ignorant old farts whose tired ideas are, by and large, not being embraced by younger people. So there is hope. We ain't done yet!


This is exactly how I understand it but Trump supporters can only talk of "what Joe Biden did" when you present it to them. Last Saturday a young man of about 23 told me he understands it all fully but he feels we are over-reacting on it because of outdated laws and principals. This is insane!

Back to the old line of "you just cannot fix stupid." One problem again is that Trump supporters simply do not care. Too much anger here.

Yeah it's like they don't have the bandwidth for any issues beyond immigration.


Yes, that about sums it up and way to many believe the orange manure spreader and company.

Ha ha, yes! And I'm only laughing because it's better than crying.


And the GOP does not care, and keeps repeating Putin's line "Blame Ukraine, not Russia, which Trump touts and 30% of Americans now believe.

Consider this . . .
A popular shirt at Trump rallies is "I would rather be a Russian than a Democrat"
Either they do not understand that is treasonous or do not care.

How far we have come from "better dead than red!" Pretty much a 180. I'm not saying that the old position vis-avis Russia was quite right. McCarthyism was certainly a stain on the American body politic. But this present threat is not from socialism; it's from organized crime.

@Flyingsaucesir I fear Bill Maher is right, that it won't matter if he is impeached, if another is elected, or 8 years go by, he won't leave, he is such a narcisist that he believes he should be king and the his base wants that, and to him his base is America, the rest are not Americans they are democrats or never trumpers.

If he can get away with using American treasure to bribe a foreign entity to help with his election, do it in plain sight and not suffer a consequence, then democracy in America is dead and we have ourselves a dictator. What Trump has done surpasses Nixon's crimes, and if our elected officials, Senators who took an oath to uphold the Constitution, will not call him out, then we are well and truly screwed.

@Flyingsaucesir I agree, if the GOP does not stand on the ethics of the Constitution, we are no longer a representative democracy. I don't think we are anyway, I think we are a representative oligarchy moving to an open kleptocracy.

If they give him a pass it creates precedent for everyone to do the same thing.
If he is re-elected its even worse.

If he is not re-elected I fear what Bill Maher says is valid, he won't leave office and will say "Its all rigged by the deep state"

This from a man who dodged his responsibility 5 times.

I cannot fathom vets who support him when he spit on Gold star Families.

Roger dat homie. You know what's up!

@Flyingsaucesir Glad to know I'm not the only vet who did not let their "military mind" die off

I'm not a vet but salute your service (and articulate good sense).

@Flyingsaucesir Sorry, confused threads. I asked in the service member group today "I wonder, how many other vets are as disturbed as I to hear the Rhetoric of the FSB coming out of the mouths of the GOP?"
and got mixed reviews which read a lot like this thread.

@Flyingsaucesir Noting your name, did you see the Joe Rogan episode where he interviews the Pilot who filmed and chased the "Tic Tac"?

No, I did not see it; I will look for it. Were you not able to make any headway among the vets?

@Flyingsaucesir No, was a three way split, no one supporting Trump but one seeing the Dems as modern McCarthyism.

Huh! Trump makes Tricky Dicky look like frigging choirboy. How can they miss that? I mean, how can they fail to see that Trump's actions are so egregious, they had no choice but to impeach.

@Flyingsaucesir Because many of them are under the influence of "The Family" (Jeff Sharlet wrote a great book on this years ago, now a netflicks doc)

The Family is an evangelical sect based in DC, which keeps a house (expensive piece of property) to groom both sitting politicians and groom future politicians.

They think whomever is elected is of course God's plan, as all things are. Don't matter if he's Ghandi or Caligula, that is what God wants.

And it was pretty blatant that Russia was behind Trump, even before he was made the main choice for republican pres campaign. But we were drowned out by news & social media when calling it out. My friends & I were yelling into the wind. None could hear it, There was so much noise & distraction from even the most basic facts.

@KittensandSage So you got hoarse screaming "look out!" too eh?

@Davesnothere lol yes. It was long post, sorry. But you guys are spot on. & much if what I’m reading from the thread I didn’t know! Thank you for sharing knowledge.


Well stated, and plenty of it!

Yeah sorry about the length of that post; I just cannot find a way to fit all Trump's multifarious mendacity into a neat little sound bite. This is part of his genius: he always keeps it real simple (e.g., "Witch hunt!" )


The repubs need a "come to Jesus" moment.

Yeah, 'cause right now they're looking a lot like the guy from down under --- and I don't mean Australia.

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