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I teach pre-k for public school in Oklahoma. The school is required by LAW to say the pledge of allegiance and observe a moment of silence each day. I have no problem taking a moment to breathe and mediate. I do stand and salute but I never say "under God". One of my students noticed and asked why I didn't say it. I just said, "because I believe in the separation of church and state". I also don't force them or make it a big deal to do the pledge, but you can tell some kids have been "raised right". Sometimes I want to take a knee during the pledge lol, or at least not stand and salute at all. But I know the other teachers would scrutinize me during assemblies, or I fear a student will tell a parent who will then make my life hell. And since it is the law I could actually lose my job! Thoughts?

Ozwin 4 Mar 25
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35 comments

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11

One solution I've seen is to put your hand on your heart during the pledge, put it by your side during the "under god" part, and then put it back over your heart.

Why not do something about the history of the pledge for the class, emphasizing that "under god" was added way in the 1950s?

Yea, not for pre think though

4

If you can relocate. If your union has a position on the issue find out what it is.

6

As much as it sucks, sometimes you are forced to go along to get along.
It's not worth losing your job over. I can't believe I just said that, but I did.
There are other ways to be subversive.

8

I feel your pain. My CEO and company president always pray before big meeting meals. We are in the south. I sigh as it is a customary thing here but I think it’s not a good thing to do as an employer when there are over 100 people in the room of differing backgrounds.

Some people love it though... it is irritating.

Fab Level 5 Mar 25, 2018

I can't imagine. But I've always lived in New England.

9

The law is unconstitutional but I don't think it is worth your job. I would just play the game.

Nuke Level 5 Mar 25, 2018
6

I agree with ACLU comments!
What bothers me more, the "under god" a relic of Joe McCarthy era, or this manifestation of patriotism? Visited on you no doubt by people who may be more seditious than patriotic, for that matter! supporting you morally/ ethically

2

Let's hope that all of your students like and trust you not to expose you.

7

Tough situation with no easy answers.
It's easy to say report it and protest...
But a job is a job and they aren't always easy to come by. It kinda sucks, but if you risk it and it turns bad, I'm sure that word can travel even if you try to change jobs.
I say play the game... You obviously know the rules.
?
Good luck.

7

This will not make me popular here. First, let me say that the evangelical emphasis is like a pendulum. In our history, it swings back and forth. I would put the sixties on the opposite side of where we are now. Take comfort in the knowledge that it will swing back, and it's going to start soon. It always has. It's how change sticks here.

That being said, I would say that you have two choices. You can choose to be a crusader, make a big stink about it. Contact the ACLU and declare that you are willing to be a complainant. Contact the FFR and be their standard bearer. But if you're going to do it, you have to be all in. There will be press and publicity, and you will likely lose your job. It will also be difficult to find another job anywhere that is a conservative community.

The other choice is to suck it up and choose your battles on a smaller scale. It sucks. It's offensive and frustrating and wholly wrong, but it's the world we live in right now. I hate it. We all hate it, but these are your choices. If you lived somewhere else, I'd give different advice. If your job didn't involve children, I'd give different advice. Evangelicals get batshit crazy when it comes to who educates their kids. Sorry.

Why would that make you unpopular here?

@Roadster because I wasn't advocating marching in the streets or something similar, which I would love but is sadly unrealistic, imho

8

I never say one nation under god either. So far no one has noticed.

1

Nope, I would stand up and loudly say fukit and throw both hands in the air showing the two handed one finger salute, if that's what I believed.

Since that's not my belief, I would think of the ones who are no longer with us because they died to help us enjoy what we have as I say the pledge, then I would reflect on my beliefs in the moment of silence while other do the same. I am very hard core when I need to be. I see the advantages of keeping us united and respecting other's beliefs.

I would have to question it as are my feelings to rebel due to it being a law, or against my own belief.

5

That's a really hard place to be in. It really comes down to do you want to walk through fire to get it changed or is it tolerable. I think I would contact the ACLU. They could probably give you more information.

3

My thoughts - Pledges of allegience and children do not mix. They do not have the capacity to understand what they are saying and it should only be something required of adults at events such as becoming a citizenship ceremony. I think this should be discussed with high school kids as part of their Civics or Legal Studies subjects to have a background on where it came from & what it really means.

Agreed!

8

I used to live in Duncan. In 2015, there was a mom that contacted the appropriate legal groups and filed a complaint when her child came home from school with a bible. The teacher had handed out bibles to kids in the classroom. The community did everything possible to make her (the complainant) and her family's lives miserable. The community rallied around the teacher.

OMG?

I believe it!

2

You got to do what you got to do.

0

You probably have to do it if you want to continue working as a teacher in that state. And being a Teacher is a very important and noble thing to do! If you are good at it, please don't stop.
What if, instead of saying "one nation, under God" you said "one nation, e pluribus Unum"
The motto E Pluribus Unum was first proposed by the U.S. Continental Congress in 1782, for use on the Great Seal of the United States.

I think that would be more aggressive than not saying it at all lol

1

Fight it, what do you have to lose? Read that OK teachers are the worst paid in the country.

1

I believe that I would condition myself, by keeping my personal beliefs...personal... unless you are ask. I liked your responce about 'separation of church and state.' You did not sell yourself out and yet you did not reveal, 'your all.' I doubt that you would find the perfect teaching environment for your nature, so the next best thing is to protect your 'inner nature.' You are there to perform a service, a professional...you are not there to convince anyone of your personal worth or beliefs! Your beliefs should support you in being an upright person, and that right is not given to you by any other person! That is what this country stands for, even as it appears strained at the moment!

1

That is not only unconstitutional but has been backed up by the Supreme Court. Even the old version could not be forced on people. This was something my late partner (also a K-3rd grade teacher) always fought and always won.

Good to know! So he didn't stand at all? Did he have any consequences?

0

Turn your back to the class so they can't read your lips ...speak softly and mumble.

1

If I were you I would tell them that the minute silence was to remember everybody wrongly killed by the country and tell them that flags are symbols of everything wrong with a nation, as well as everything right.

This way you get to keep your job, teach your kids the true patriotism, and excercise free speech!

I like that!

1

I personally hated being forced to say the Pledge. With the current state the country is in, I feel like I’m declaring allegiance to a totalitarian dictator than allying myself with something I can voluntarily have. That’s just me, and I’m not a teacher or any type of authority figure, but forcing someone to say what they don’t actually believe may have some problems to it.

Adam7 Level 4 Mar 26, 2018
0

Play along. It's not worth losing your job.

1

Land of the free says it all I thought.

2

I know Oklahoma is a right-to-work (for less) state but maybe your union rep? ACLU? FFRF?

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