I had a VERY interesting conversation today with a guy going to seminary... he told me that animals don’t have souls...now I can’t PROVE that ANYTHING has a soul, but I can say that animals exhibit similar traits and behaviors as humans which leads me to treat them with the same respect as I would ANY human being... so to me that qualifies as having a soul!
1
Enjoy being online again!
Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.Create your free account
6 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.
I had a similar conversation the other day. I was left without an answer because they don't know what they talking about. Animals have life and humans have life. Animals are conscious and humans are conscious. Animals think and feel and humans the same. I don't see where a soul comes in.
Ramone
Level 5
Dec 5, 2019
1
The soul concept falls short IMO. Who or what is it that is having a soul?
It seems more reasonable to me to say that our sense of identity as a separate body is illusory and that it is nature itself that is consciously aware. The organic bodies are just dumb robots.
WilliamFleming
Level 8
Dec 4, 2019
1
Donne, a long time ago we (human animals) began using our evolutionary adaption of abstract thought to solve problems. First were the basics; shelter, food, language, security, etc. but then came pleasure; arts, music, dance, etc. We began to understand how to measure pattern, looking to the stars was a great gauge. We began to cultivate crops, domesticate other useful animals and organize around these systems; what we call civilization. But then an interesting thing happens...we have the free time to really observe nature, not for practical purposes, but simply to understand. What you have related is actually very ancient. Yes, we are all animals. The difference is we have the ability to choose how we act. So, as you proceed in developing your understanding of the world in ways you can understand it, it will be important to watch what people do, not what they say. I think you will begin to understand where and why theologies fail.
digifilm4
Level 5
Dec 4, 2019
1
I think we view this all wrong. Consciousness isn't just "have it or not". There are degrees. Imagine being in absolute darkness with only a flickering single candle. That small sphere of light is all the awareness you have of the world around you. It's based on your senses and your ability to organize their input into a working understanding of your existence with limited "brainpower". All a matter of neural connections and the ability to store inputs for use and understanding. The more neural activity your form supports then the greater your sphere of understanding. Senses provide the "light" and the brain provides clarity for the things you encounter within it. So animals have limited consciousness.
JeffMesser
Level 8
Dec 4, 2019
2
I can see that perspective.
@Donne read about the NOTCH2NL mutations in chromosome 1 and things really start to get interesting.
Regardless the consciousness is a product of the brain. We can talk about different degree of intelligence of beings with consciousness
@Ramone we don't know that it's all just biological. you're making assumptions there.
@JeffMesser consciousness is one of the biggest mystery in philosophy and biology so we don't know very much about it. So far there is no evidence that consciousness can exist without a brain.
@Ramone depends on how you view consciousness. you're basing your view entirely on materialism. I'd suggest reviewing some epistemology and checking out the problems with "seeing the seer". You cannot find a catbird's seat to view it objectively so you use other methods. Other cultures figured this problem out thousands of years ago. That doesn't mean it isn't there. Things exist apart from our ability to measure and/or explain them. For years there was no scientific explanation for how helicopters or bumblebees could fly. In fact, all of our current science said they could not.Yet they flew. We KNOW that consciousness in individuals breaks down the waveform so there is something there. But its' lack of mass renders us unable to measure it. We know it's there. we know it does things. we only ASSUME it is part of the brain yet even then we cannot measure it and that assumption doesn't fit that narrative in every case so we do know it is faulty.
@JeffMesser I'm not a materialist. Those who assert that there is a 'soul' has the burden of proof. If you define the soul as consciousness then It lacks any significance in that we know consciousness so far is an emerging property of the brain. If you have any evidence that consciousness can exist without a brain then I'll like to hear it. And I'm not asserting that it CANNOT exist absent a brain all in saying is so far we have no reason to believe that it can. Amd the time ti believe is when the evidience supports it. As it relates to waveform, it's the act of seeing that break it down since we have to use light to see the light interact with the waveform and break it down.
@Ramone seeing? no. thats not accurate at all. those experiments show the waveform break down without any "seeing". again, I'd suggest you examine the issue of seeing the seer. there's no objective seat to measure from nor anything to measure by that standard. That's why the epistemology is so important.
Please watch
“...we know consciousness so far is an emerging property of the brain.”
There is actually no such thing as a burden of proof, but if there were that burden would be upon you, having made such an assertion.
BTW, who are “we”? Tyson is not God almighty and he is full of baloney.
Ask him to define "soul".
PondartIncbendog
Level 8
Dec 4, 2019
1
My sentiments exactly...hell I don’t even know if I have one!
Enjoy being online again!
Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.Create your free account
Share this post
Categories
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.