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So I'm stuck in the bible belt and, in my opinion, one of the very small number of things the church got correct is installing a sense of community. I got ordained a few years ago on an internet site as an atheist minister to help a couple (LGBTQ) friends get married and a few weeks ago I've decided to stir up some drama and help my fellow non-religous community members at the same time. I am looking to start an atheist "church" as a charitable community that meets up once a month for that feeling myself and others miss after leaving religion. I'm also looking to have it double as a youth center, a crisis center and a homeless shelter in times of need as none of the 100+ churches in my town actually offer those services. Looking for thoughts, suggestions, ideas and opinions on this idea that has as much a chance to get me hung as it does to work.

JohnnyMiller 6 Dec 15
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6

Personally, I don't like the idea of calling anything an atheist "church".
I think I understand what you'd like to achieve, and it's a lovely notion.

I will warn you about one thing. If you actually get a brick and mortar
site, you are giving "them" a target.

Good luck.

6

I suggest you contact the Atheist Community of Austin, in Austin Texas for advice, they have been doing this sort of thing for well over two decades.

That's true. Maybe I can give Matt or one of them a call this afternoon. Thanks for the advice.

5

Scour the IRS regulations for declaring ‘anything’ a tax exempt religious organization… In a one-time very active Atheist organization in Portland, OR, a guest speaker from the IRS basically described it as impossible for ‘us’ to declare ourselves ‘a church.’ I forget the details, but our fearless leader, an aggressive state / church seperationist Attorney unfortunately had to agree; and the idea had been his..

We ended up with an Atheist Community Center under the formal name of United States Atheists (USA). That worked! Members were married, television shows produced, press conferences given, good deeds done ..and we were ‘tax exempt.’ The problem of declaring Atheism a Religion is the (necessary) contradiction in terms… We should have nothing to do with them. But, on our own - the sky should be the limit!

...but, good luck finding insurance on your headquarters.. As our god-pushing neighbors were known for their threats and propensity to play with fire. Never a serious act, though ~

Varn Level 8 Dec 15, 2019
5

I think that is a great idea but I'd suggest that you don't call it a church because doing so lends credence to the idea that atheism is a religion, which it is not.

4

Humans evolved as "herd" animals that formed groups as a strategy for safety. We are instinctually drawn into groups for that reason. When we are a part of a group or community we feel safe and calm.

A sense of community and belonging is the only positive aspects to religion in my opinion.

I absolutely agree. And when in a minority that's been ostracized like we've been here, we don't have that community unless we make it ourselves.

@JohnnyMiller I'll bet that is at least in part why this site exists.

4

Imwht a brilliant ideas. I wish you every success. If I lived around the corner and not in Australia I’d be with you shoulder to shoulder.

It’s the most worthwhile project I have heard of for some time.

Thank you very much. If you're ever over for a visit we'll save you a seat to the party.

4

Atheism is nothing more than lack of belief in any deities; it is not an ideology or broad based belief system so there is in my view practically speaking nothing to cohere a community around. In real life, atheists identify with their families, their hobbies, their political and charitable interests, etc. before they identify with their unbelief in gods, and those identities are quite varied. Indeed, if it weren't for the hegemony of religion in the world, the very concept of atheism would not be particularly useful. We will know we're no longer a theistic society when there are no more people even identifying as atheists, because there's no need to.

Look into Sunday Assemblies, who has already tried this and who aren't doing well.

In my view it would be better to establish a youth / crisis / homeless center open to people of all (or no) faiths and not put the emphasis on atheism. Make it a secular operation that deploys secular and scientific standards of care and operation. That is the real need in the Bible belt -- the absence of public goods that are accessible to all. It would be better for the government to spearhead that but see what you can accomplish on a smaller local scale.

As to building community or communities, do it around substance abuse, homelessness, invisible illnesses, things of that nature that people actually need support around. Perhaps you could have a community of deconverts who support each other in leaving the prevailing local faith. But atheism by itself, in my judgment, won't cut it.

In fact my experience has been that as an unbeliever and introvert what I really need is just some very unambitious, simple, even shallow connections with others. The point is almost more to have face to face contact than what it is about. I play cards with a handful of other old farts at the senior citizens center. Once in awhile I attend charity events or volunteer in some capacity. More rarely we go to activities at a UU congregation that has a lot of atheists in the membership but does not confine itself to atheists.

In other words everything doesn't have to be a "wear your heart on your sleeve" share-fest. It is simple human connection that is the real need.

I agree with you for the most part and intend to implement a considerable number of those things into my organization. I am actually in contact with sunday assembly and they've been very helpful in working with me and within the law to get everything set up. I've read their page and "doctrines" and I love the radical inclusion aspect because we have a surprisingly high number of agnostics, pagans, wiccans, satantists and dudists in our town that all generally get lumped into the same distasteful (to the religious) category. We will be running as an affiliate, provided the paperwork goes through before the new year. The main goal is to get them all together and show them that there are more of us than we realized and an emphasis that we are there for each other. So far the response of interest I've gotten has been loud with much more positive than negative, including quite a few people wanting to come in from out of town to help set it up and one guy that wants to be there to picket us for being "Satan's helpers." I guess there's always that very vocal minority no matter what you try.

@JohnnyMiller I wish you well on your project. There is certainly no reason why only theists should do good works and run no-strings-attached charitable operations and serve the community. And indeed, in many ways, the fact you see a need probably indicates that they aren't really doing that anyway.

3

Sign me up! Except for lack of community, I love where I live. My life is manageable, affordable and convenient. - Signed an atheist in Texas Bible Belt.

3

I wish you all the best. I live in the Buffalo, NY area, where Center for Inquiry has its international headquarters. We are working to build a sense of community like you are talking about, which many of us miss after leaving religion. Because Buffalo is a decent-sized town, there are already organizations that do the other things.

Don't listen to the haters, either here or in your town or on FB. That's fantastic that you have a like-minded attorney who is helping you! Keep us updated on how it's going.

Thanks. I will make sure I give the update.

3

I did the same thing when our laws only allowed for homeschooling through a church or private tutor with a certified teacher. Easy solution was make my own church.

Jennw Level 4 Dec 15, 2019
3

If you really feel this go for it! Jerry DeWitt does a similar thing in Louisiana and he used to be a Pentecostal preacher. He has preserved the sense of community that so many people need in doing this. I do not know Jerry and never met him, but I listened to many of his talks on You Tube and he was a big influence in me coming out atheist. In general I am against the word "church" for this type of service because it tends to bring atheism back into religious grounds but we all know that "without god" is a simple doctrine to follow. There are no other requirements.

2

I see now, how people have come to think of atheism as a religion. We hates it.

That's perfectly okay actually. I found a loophole in a Canadian ruling for this exact situation that I plan on printing off and framing next to my ordainment. Basically the ruling was that even when pretending to be a religion, atheism is still in fact not a religion. It will be a non-profit charity from a business standpoint and a "church" from a tongue-in-cheek standpoint.

@JohnnyMiller. in Canada? How does that bleed over to the U.S.A.?
A side from that, what your doing is confirming that atheism is a religion. I have discovered that the majority of people seem to have a hard time separating the difference.

@MrDragon A government ruling is still a government ruling. If I get the go ahead to become an affiliate then it will be part of the "sunday assembly" so it won't actually be a church. It's a community organization founded by comedians doing charitable work. As I said the "church" aspect of it is just tongue in cheek. I'm in no way confirming that atheism is a religion. It is a religious viewpoint however and can be used to bring people with that commonality in my community together.

@JohnnyMiller Okay I see. Good luck, and I hope everything works out for you and for all that's involved.

2

your opinion dude, I don't buy it. Sense of community? Haven't you heard that birds of a feather flock together? The brainwashed get together to do shitty stuff under the guise of helping. Spare me from communities like that! Here's a thought, forget the churches, there are plenty of secular organizations that help the needy, volunteer there and really help.

To be honest I didn't really expect it to appeal to too many people over the age of 40 or so. Different generations dealt with social issues differently. And again, being in Oklahoma, there aren't any secular organizations I can just randomly join.

@JohnnyMiller now you are age discriminating? Tsk, tsk. We geezers like to seek first before we assume. Here read (you're welcome): [thinkatheist.com]

@Mofo1953 No actually I'm not age discriminating as the assembly I will be forming doesn't care what age or really anything for that matter what a prospective member is. But as mentioned by another person on this post, there is a difference in coping mechanisms used today vs 30 years ago. And apparently I failed to see the use of a list of secular charities that don't really pertain to what I'm wanting to accomplish with my personal project.

@JohnnyMiller you can lead a mule to the river, but...

1

First off, try to resist calling it anything that can be remotely associated with religions/churches, it gives it that wee religious stench in my opinion.
Maybe try something akin to " Assemblage of Free-Thinkers" instead.

1

...be hung? I too reside in the Bible Belt, Covington, Ga to be exact. I have never had any real problem with being a publically known Atheist? In fact, I have found a few closet Atheists who don't publicize their lack of religion because of family issues. Of course, I have had lots of people want to convert me. But they do see how I agree with them on many basic issues (even though I am a stout, true Independent Progressive Centrist, and not a Republican), I don't try to convert them, I do know the Bible (hence why I am an Atheist), I give to non-christian charities, and I support their right to personally believe.

GA sounds nice. I'm stuck in the middle of a small town in oklahoma and half the town thinks I worship the devil and that I'm an evil unethical person. Literally had a stranger tell me that the other day when I posted looking for interest in our towns facebook group.

@JohnnyMiller My former neighbor GLUED Bible verses to my front door!

@JustAskMe Yup. I've had psalm 14 glued to my car window too many times to count. I understand the "love" of the deeply religious.

1

In my opinion humankind was social and had a sense of community long before religion co-oped it, like everything else they got "right" (a staggeringly little number of things, btw.)

It's a great sense of community it does bring, however, in getting one community to try and anialate another. Also gives comfort when that other community kills a bunch of your community. Cool system.

I get what your trying to do but copying religion does what excately, besides keep the framework of a fucked up system in place?

1of5 Level 8 Dec 15, 2019
1

As a person who was an Atheist long before it was "cool" and accepted, I know there are a lot of new Atheists who still feel they need a church. Organizing the old school Atheists is like herding cats, we are too used to being independent and find the idea of going to a church unappealing.

Especially after leaving a church.

I agree with that actually as I've been an atheist for the better part of two decades but only open about it for the last five years. Also being an early millennial I'm stuck somewhere between the younger and older generations. The problem I'm having with my town is that I've had to personally help a few younger atheists that were thrown out of their homes by their families and myself and a few others want to make a permanent place that these people can go for that feeling of security.

1

Check with the IRS as to what status you need to apply for tax-wise. Follow their rules To The Letter!!!
Check with your state & local zoning officials, inmost places there are lots & lots of rules as to "guests" in your home, parking, etc.....never enforced unless neighbors complain........ also after you get in compliance with all of the above, talk to your homeowners/renters insurance people....they will need to write a completely different policy! And consulting an attorney would be prudent as well.

Dealing with that in the next week. It'll be a 501c3 as a non-profit charity it just won't be classified as a religious charity. And the building we're looking at is an old church building already and it's still in compliance with code enforcement. My attorney is having a field day with this in fact and is actually doing this for us free of charge as his contribution to getting it set up.

1

Good luck. I feel fortunate to be able to stay in my small town church community as a nonbeliever, but I know most churches are not so tolerant. I think in most rural communities the "unchurched" hardly have any support group at all.

1

Kudos! FFRF might have some ideas. It's probably a tribal thing - the idea of community somehow being exclusive to the religious. It also surprises me the churches with all their thoughts and prayers . . . . well, we'll leave that rant for another day.
You have tax exempt stasis? Hope and help does not need to be tied to a church or belief, it helps with marketing but if the need is there it will be welcomed.

Didn't think of them either. Thanks for that one. I'll see about giving them a call tomorrow.

1

“Atheist minister”....”Ordained”....on what atheist site? Are you talking about Humanism or Atheism?

I did this too, just to prove to a godbotherer how anyone, including so called pastors and evangelists could legitimately call themselves Rev.

@LenHazell53 I must be more deferential towards you in future now I know you’re the Reverend Leonard... not just plain old common five-eights Len!

@Marionville Bless you my child😂😂😂

I got ordained with the Cherokee Nation church of the internet so I could marry my best friend to my other best friend.

I did that for shits and giggles long ago. I never paid the 35+$ for the certificate and minister number (required in some states). At least two states don't recognize the internet groups (most). Of course, here, in Pennsylvania, anyone can get married without a professional of any kind. Get your marriage license and two witnesses. The Quaker laws. Same with the Amish.

0

I think you’re right in that a church serves as a community centre as much as anything. I’m a former United Church member (Methodist in the U S I believe.). I was always a sceptic but urnestly wanted to ‘see the light’. We lived in a farming community where the church was the only game in town. We raised our three children making them attend until they were old enough to think about the teachings for themselves. I was seriously losing interest. Our church split over the ordination of gay ministers. Many of the more devout left for the Baptist Church. They were ready anyhow because they weren’t too keen on women ministers either. But my wife enjoyed the other young mothers. It was catching up on family news and comparing children and singing that seemed to keep them in it. If the minister was kind and friendly with some good life lessons to share that was good enough for them. As for the men they weren’t coming out the same. There was Sunday men’s hockey and stouph like that. Seems more men were doing their community work through organizations like Shriners, etc. People just weren’t buying the ‘dogma’ anymore except those still on a spiritual quest or more receptive of magic and make believe. Those that wouldn’t question the Bible.

0

Yes we need to learn with the milenar experience of churches to create community.
In US I know there are many secular organizations that have experience providing those services, they can help you instead of starting something from scratch

0

You might want to check out the local Unitarian Universalist meeting house, as they're already a well established entity doing much of what your goals are.

Nearest one is either in oklahoma city or tulsa, both about 2 hours away from our town.

@JohnnyMiller damn. Boonies, huh ?

@evergreen Very much so. My closest neighbors are about a quarter mile down the road. I'm actually about 3 miles outside of the town I live in.

0

I was ordained by the ULC in September 1969 on my birthday. It cost one dollar in Modesto California with Reverend Hensley, the founded of the ULC!

They have helped With the establishment of many churches using the tax code information they supplied at the time!

The IRS did not interfere if you followed the tax guidelines and membership required, some states have additional legal requirements!

Since the ULC has fracture into two identities, I have just not kept up!

Seems all you need is a letter of good standing from the ULC and ordained by them to be legal as minister, priest, guru, or any title they support,

Universal Life Church has an online present on their web page!

The Original church:

[ulc.org]

The other church:

[themonastery.org]

Both seem viable.

I have married a over fifty couples in the last fifty years.
My last was in Winton California in 2016.

By the way I am not religious in any form or fashion!!!

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