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Even though I am an atheist, I recognize that we have had great theologians, whose thoughts are worth reading, considering, and sharing. Among those have been Reinhold Niebuhr, a Lutheran theologian, and, in many ways, the current Pope Francis. The question is what distinguishes them from most of today’s Christian leaders?

The difference is in how these distinguished leaders think and what they place in the center of their thinking. Niebuhr and Pope Francis have been genuinely concerned with the quality of the lives of people. They have also focused on what is in their theology that makes it of genuine value worth sharing with others. That is, they have almost always focused on understanding searching for the true meaning o that should constitute core of their religious beliefs. They have been distinguished, but humble. They value and seek to better the quality of human life. They have not sought to impose their own biases and self-created dogmas on the body of their religious thought.

In contrast, most of today’s evangelical Christian and Muslim “leaders” behave very differently. None of them are true thinkers who are asking questions and seeking to examine all of theology of their faith and asking how it does and should relate to being human and on the quality of life. Instead they either (1) that all that we need to know is contained in a pure strain dogma already handed to us, and which we must follow, or (2) they decide that they, alone, have discovered the religious truth, and it is their duty to try to impose it upon us.

When I was religious, I was taught that blasphemy is he act of “taking God’s name in vain.” That is exactly what these demagogues are doing – infusing their theology with their own biases and untruths, and calling it “the word of God.”These are despicable egocentric and destructive people whose pronouncements must be challenged at every turn! They would would diminish, abuse, and impose religious tyranny upon us.

wordywalt 9 Dec 27
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0

Regardless of what good fellows they happen to be, the religious are indoctrinating our young and vulnerable with untruths. They exploit the poor countries, causing untold damage by saying contraception is a sin. And when I see the unbelievably rich catholic church selling off some of their prime real-estate to feed the poor, I will believe they have true altruism. Here are some pics of the obscene wealth of the vatican. Another is Bishop's house in Detroit that was for sale. Hypocrisy big time. No excuse.

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Religion takes the form of the preacher.
A religious humanist (person who promotes the wellbeing of human life) will preach something promoting those values.
A religious greedy, narcissistic egomaniac will have a different gospel.

I will always resist those who prey on others, and theologians regardless of what they preach because even if I agree completely with what they want to promote; I find their reasoning polluted and disturbing.

Care for the weak. Help the poor. Peace. Empathy. Charity.
I can get behind all of these concepts. However, as soon as someone says "this is what god wants", they are opening the door to validating whatever madness the destructive religious fanatics promote.
Magical thinking is magical thinking.
It's not fair to blame the religious humanists/intellectuals but they are the backbone of the religious evil of the world.
For example: Very few Christians are comfortable with child rape or molestation. The leaders of the organization they support ARE ok with it and has gone to great lengths to make sure it keeps happening. A decision which has lost them no significant degree of support.

Like I said, I will probably agree with a lot of what your favored theologians promotes. I just will not side with any fruit of the poisonous tree.

"Be not as the hypocrites who pray in public" (roughly) what bible-Jesus said. I wish more religious people would follow this concept. However, even this is a seed of disaster IF your reasoning to follow this example is "Jesus said so in the bible", since you can't make that argument without validating everything else that falls under that definition.

What if your reasoning to follow this example is that you see the wisdom in it? What if you see the Jesus character as a literary device used to convey wisdom stories, as some of the greatest theologians did?

@skado As long as you can promote an idea as valid/wise without appealing to divine mandate, I see no problem with it.
If a theologian did that I wouldn't oppose his/her ideas on that point.
I have more experience with creationists than people who can see Jesus as a literary means to convey wisdom. Not necessarily bad people but badly warped by taking texts literally.

@MLinoge
Literalism has two big problems. The more obvious one is that it steers you down a nonsensical path, but perhaps the worse problem is that it also fails to deliver the wisdom.

1

Though we may call them “theologians,” it’s their thinking about ethics that has some value. The theological overlay is still “angels dancing on the head of a pin” stuff, with little relevance to the real world in my book.

2

What is the word of god? Why would I think that one person has it when another person does not?

I am not talking about the "word of god." I am talking about the useful and intelligent thought of good men.

@wordywalt I do not find or see many good religious men. I'm also not looking for them.

@DenoPenno I am not lookin for good religious men. I am simply looking for good men. There are not enough.

3

A truer moniker couldn't have been chosen, but sometimes excessive wordiness doesn't really contribute to make a point or totally misses and fails. Pope Francis concerned with the quality of people's lives??? By protecting pedophile priests and publicly albeit hypocritically declaring to the contrary??? Not talking about the other dude because I never heard of this lutheran theologian nor do I care to know about any theologian, but that's just me I guess. Theology is a subject that has less than zero importance in my life, but the Argentinian Pope who is seen by many as a nice person, who talks a big game but delivers ZERO in reality, is only distinguished to me as a great hypocrite, period.

Like all of us. Pope Francis is not a perfect man. He has not delivered everything I would like to see him do, but he is a vast improvement on Benedict.

@wordywalt this may shock you but I say fuck all popes! All of them are hypocrites.

@Mofo1953 Got to agree there. If this infallibility thing is true then they should all do and say the same thing. As they don’t there seems to be a fundamental flaw in the original premise.

2

I see nothing here but rationalization. What is your point ?

0

All of them have failed to prove there is a god.

I know that. But, if you ever have read Niebuhr's writing, you would see how much meaningful and productive thought he showed in relation to many aspects of life. Don't knock it until you have read it.

@wordywalt Nonsense. I could waste my time more productively studying the "flat Earth" and/or "trickle-down economics" hypotheses. Pope Frank's goal is to unite the world under one global religious dogma, in defiance of readily available evidence.

@wordywalt The same can be said of Jiddu Krishnsmurti but I will bet hardly anyone has ever read him either’, (apart from Skado of course!)

0

When I took the class; Intellectual Philosophical History of the Twentieth Century. we read Reinhold Neibuhr. His book "Moral Man, Immoral Society" became the framework from which the Cold War was rationalized.

2

Strictly speaking, theology is a faux discipline whose only rigor is self-referential. Its intent is to advance a particular hermeneutic (system of interpretation of the holy book of choice) and represents an attempt to understand a Being who is merely asserted and can't actually be examined. So it's pretty useless. Strictly speaking.

On the other hand, the "better" theology that you cite really amounts to philosophy with a religious disguise. It gets religious people thinking because it's supposedly theology. It's devious, in a nice way. In such theology, god for example might become "the Divine", the human striving for transcendence and understanding and meaning.

Generally I prefer my philosophy straight-up, but even secular philosophy occasionally borrows from religion -- e.g., Schopenhauer borrowed concepts from Buddhism. Religion is not a particularly rich or reliable source of ideas, but it does have them now and again, when it doesn't take itself too seriously.

One should not dismiss productive and instructive thought, even if it comes from a theologian.

2

Dietrich Bonhoeffer is one to admire

Agreed.

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