don't forget this was posted in silly random and fun as a joke. I myself am critical or doubtful about IQ tests.Yet if Newton or Galileo or Leonardo or Michelangelo never took an IQ test that has nothing to do with their genius nor the tests. that would not be why i was doubtful of the tests.

of course they do. that's why their Plumbing works, the car runs, the medicine the doctor gave them is working etc.

because someone is not the brightest bulb on the tree does not mean they have no value. but there's a whole lot of stupid going on that seems unnecessary.

@hankster You started to pick up on my meaning in your second reply, but unfortunately did not take it all the way to the point I was making.

@Shawno1972 have you ever become aggravated because of stupid? either on the news or trying to buy a cup of coffee? if I'm missing your point please make it again.

@hankster I have come a long way in my thinking since stumbling upon causal determinism some years ago. Namely, I find value judgment based on perceived intelligence to be odious.

@Shawno1972 as impolite or as judgmental as it may seem, without some appraisal of intelligence, or lack thereof, living would be a much more odious endeavor.

@hankster I think there are better ways to judge individuals, and thankfully I'm not alone in this belief.

@Shawno1972 I'm not regarding a measure of intelligence as a sole measure of someone. not by any stretch. but it doesn't seem it should be excluded from considerations.

@hankster Consideration for what, though? Life? Society? Having children? The workforce? Perhaps you see the conundrum it creates when we start to want to decide what merits people ought to be afforded based on such judgments. It's a slippery slope. It is relatively easy to measure competence for things like profession, and if that was all you seemed to be advocating I'd be perfectly fine with it. But you seem to want to take it further, and that's where I have to draw the line.

@Shawno1972 I didn't know I was advocating anything except the change in the IQ test. I was making a joke about how silly our society has become. how to reconcile good sense with our world. that's the conundrum I see.

@hankster Yes, I understood what was implied by your joke. That is precisely why I said what I did. BTW - was there a time when our society wasn't silly?

@Shawno1972 not when I was paying too much attention like I probably am now.

@hankster That was a pretty good comeback.

@Shawno1972 just to be clear, I think everyone should be afforded what they need to live a happy and satisfying life. I'm not into eugenics. i tend to believe that we're all smart and we're all stupid it's just a matter of consistency it seems like. as a society we're terrible at picking out our governmental leadership on so many levels. the love of money has become sickening. literally to our society, our well-being, our planet..... I suppose the list can go on and on. the stupidity is a glaring symptom of our stupidity. peace

@hankster I appreciate the clarification, thank you. I think you can see where I'm coming from, too. I don't think the people we might classify as "stupid" can really help it, and so I'm not interested in finding any means or reasons to single them out. Moreover, many of the people in my life who I might judge as simpletons could be much better off in terms of overall peace of mind. Either way, I estimate my country's people are collectively smarter than they have ever been, at least in terms of general awareness and education, and that's something I find worthy of encouragement.

@Shawno1972 some of my favorite people in my life, some are still living, some not, are those folks who can't help it. the most beautiful hearts and spirits available to mankind. but the rest of us have made a mess of it. feels like we're making it worse. I wish I could say the same for my impression of my country as you do for yours.

@Shawno1972 perhaps my meaning would be clearer if I use the word ignorant instead of stupid.

@Shawno1972 I don't know...intelligence (wedded to common sense) seems a good place to start.
It's funny how the people with the "best hearts and spirits" are also the most successful (intelligence plus luck?).
With success comes preferential treatment, which leads to a very positive attitude toward one's fellow men.
With failure comes ILL treatment, which leads to a decidedly negative attitude toward mankind.
Attitudes can shape behavior, and so the cycle reinforces itself, sets courses in life...one toward 'sainthood,' the other to demonic possession!
Figuratively speaking, of course.