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The best thing about being agnostic is knowing (as much as it is humanly possible) there is no hell.
Yes it's too bad it opens us to the possibility there is no afterlife at all, and everything we are and hoped to be was perhaps an illusion--though that is far from settled.
BUT the prospect of eternal suffering--as if this world wasn't enough!--is erased from our menu of future options.
Just think how liberating that is, for those of us who arrive at that realization!
The Buddhists talk about "self-realization"....well, I'm far from sure there really IS such a thing the way they mean it, but it IS a step in the direction of finding out who we are as human beings.
We are if nothing else rare phenomena in the universe. 'New Agey?'
Call it what you will, but at the very LEAST we have these moments in time to experience life as no other creatures (we know of) can.
We can look in the mirror and without conceit marvel at the fact we see ourselves looking back.
Yes, depending on your point of view, it could be a pointless and meaningless futility we are dealing with; even a cruel joke played on us by a cruel and malevolent twist of fate.
It might even be true it would've been better if we were never born.
As the beneficiaries of an economic system which has comparatively speaking showered us with the luxury of contemplating such lofty things, surely we realize many others live agonizing lives about which the only good thing about life IS death.
I'm sorry for them.
But that's mercifully not me and probably not you, if you're reading this.
No, we can ponder at our leisure the 'meaning of it all,' and come up with all sorts of theories, suppositions, assumptions, ideas, guesses.
We can play foolish games with words, examine mathematical formulas which may shed light on the whole business, wait for scientists to figure it all out and let us know, FINALLY, what the h--l is going on...
And often despise our ignorance.
That, as they say, "is what it is."
But we're here, like it or not, and I for one will take it, even if all the while I bemoan the fact someday it may all end.
Might as well sing about it:

Into a dancer you have grown
From a seed someone else has thrown
Go on ahead and throw some seeds of your own
And somewhere between the time you arrive
And the time you go
May lie the reason you were alive
But you'll never know.

Storm1752 8 Jan 11
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Jackson Browne's closing lines in "For A Dancer" have been meaningful to me for a very long time. Other religions, such as Judaism, do not have a strong concept of hell, so your assertion that it is something special about atheism/agnosticism is not true. But where does the need in some people for some sort of afterlife come from? It is a false concept pushed by Christianity and to a lesser extent by some other religions to hook people into their faith, God is a concept created long ago by man to placate the unruly and the ignorant.

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According to my neighbor, Orthodox Jew, not black suits, Hell is a Christian Construct. In torah there is no red skinned naked tormentor, no pools of molten iron or molten sulphur . Gone as well are the monsters that eat your, and then you get reborn to be used as a chew toy every few minutes.

Hell is where you go, to be forgotten. The desert can be extremely cold at night, and what we call hell is a place away from god the eternal light,(if you will). Basically you are left alone and forgotten and don't die, just eternal loneliness.

We talk religion a lot. I asked him a few times about the nazi experience of WWII. His father moved to Palestine b4 the war, 1 relative went to nyc, every other relative died in a camp.He did say many many jews gave up on religion after the war. For everyone that became more intense, another said fuck god. God may be a creator, but god does not do anything for anybody. He passed on many jews are so because as jews or of their line, they have been and will be persecuted forever, so at least by espousing judaism they have strength.

My mom renewed her christianity 20 years before her death by cancer. My dad held onto his deism/agnostacism till the day he died, with dimentia. He could not be corrupted...errr reconverted

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I overcame notions of hell long before I discarded notions of a God because . . .

The Christian concept of Hell turns God into an extortionist.

For God, being all knowing, timeless and ever present, created man with full knowledge he would fall (or your definition fails and God is not all knowing, ever present and timeless).

Hell is thus like a shotgun held to everyone's head. God then says "IF you love me and Obey me, you won't get shot. It is your choice"

BUT

The Same God, created Hell for this fallen man as a predetermined fate.

Like a shotgun Strapped into everyones mouth and rigged to go off UNLESS you love God
and obey God.
And such a God model already knew whose brains would be cherry pie on the wall and whose would not, since before TIME BEGAN.

That makes your idea of salvation actually a violent extortion, if fact THE MOST violent extortion possible as it is eternal.

That would make your proposed God an Evil SOB.
I would rather burn in hell than willfully serve an evil extortionist.

I know. Most of us do.
No better news than THAT!
It's been a long time since I settled that question to my complete satisfaction--oh, maybe 10 or 40 years--and've been on an intermittent high ever since.
Can't ALWAYS be giddy with elation and relief.

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Many times we make our own Hell during our lives. As we aren't perfect, the best we can do is finding balance between our qualities and our faults. I think that's more than enough for us.

Agreed. Time spent dreaming of an afterlife is no more than the magical thinking of orphans.

@Dee138 Have you NEVER seen the research which seems to all but prove reincarnation is real, or at least strongly indicated?
It may surprise you.

@Storm1752 As a social scientist, there is no empirical way to prove or disprove life after death. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs that is simply one I do not share.

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My fear of death dropped to zero once I became an atheist. I'm in no hurry for it to happen, mind you, but I no longer fear it.

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Note: surprised so many are focusing on the obvious: no hell.
That was just my starting-off point.
I was focused on what that realization MEANS in terms of liberating the mind to consider the REAL situation we find ourselves in.
All kinds of ideas about that, as I said, but at least WE are free to discuss them without being bogged down by that particular baggage (which for those with it, weighs 500 million tons, at least).

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The best thing about not believing there are no gods, no religions, no hell, and not really believing in bullshit ever again is thatyour mind is free from hang ups, a sense of freedom from even thinking about bullshit ever again, bullshit is not even an issue for me and I dedicate less than one nano second in worrying or giving any kind of time to ponder about things we don't know, non believing in the bullshit is liberating indeed.

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"All hope abandon ye who enter here." - Dante had it backwards.
Abandoning hope (despair for the future of Humanity and the Biosphere) can and does create Hell in one's own lifetime.

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Sometimes I wish there was a hell because there are some people I'd love to send there!

Jennw Level 4 Jan 11, 2020

Wow.
Let's not make YOU god, then.

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I have no fear of my own death, just deep concerns of love ones suffering and dying, as It's the illusion of control. Health and what you can forget are two most important for happiest.

If people want to be led into the bronze age. Then regret Jesus and not report him to amnesty international. Then they are living in their own personal hell on earth.

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Of course there is no hell. That concept came out of the confusion and misdirected developments presented in religious writings and scripture. If I do not believe these writings to be valid from any source why would I believe in a hell? Many people go around saying "yeah, but there still could be a god." Why would they want one? Are there people going around saying "yeah, there still could be a hell?" Once again, why would you want one?

Is there life after death? IDK. Is your food still there on your plate once you have eaten it? How will it be reborn? You may take this as comedy but I am answering some very serious questions.

I just hope my grandmothers roast are never reborn! They would actually choke you!

No you are not kidding, the sad thing is people rarely ask themselves these questions. It takes you to bring them to light.

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Death is merely the cost of living. I hear it's better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. I'm not sure if that's the case or even if love isn't some form of self-deception. However, even if it is an illusion, it makes life bearable while it lasts, or while they both last.

Life is the same, what we experience and feel is our reality, maybe it is a computer simulation or a dream, but even so it's all we've got, and we'll never know otherwise. We live in a universe full of mystery and wonder, and the only reason that death troubles me is that I won't be around to see the mysteries solved or experience all of that wonder.

I don't know if we are the only creatures that are self aware. I'm pretty sure there are many animal species that show signs of possessing traits. Beyond that, it's extremely difficult to imagine that all the life in the entirety of the universe exists on one insignificant, otherwise unremarkable planet.

I'm not "New Agey" at all, by the way. I do believe that the physical universe and perhaps a number of parallel universes are the entire extent of reality without any metaphysical other worlds or supernatural beings that cannot be scientifically quantified. I'm okay with that. Even without fairytales, this reality is more than enough.

JimG Level 8 Jan 11, 2020
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I did a special study on hell. I consulted both Elaine Pagels, and Bart Ehrman and they both were very helpful. Last year Bart told me he is writing a book on hell. I eagerly await its release!
Long story short, I found the most evolution in the Christian religion is in the area of the hell concept. It appears that there was very little belief or even thought of hell from the early Christianites. Hell practically did not exist even as a concept to them.

@SeaGreenEyez They certainlly do now but the concept of hell that we have today is due mostly to Paradise Lost and Dantes inferno. The modern concept of hell is real and prolific, but relatively recent. It is not anything close to what early Christians ( all sects) believed. When one thinks of religion one must accept that it evolves constantly. I am an amateur historian.

@SeaGreenEyez I was misspoken wheen I said it did not exist as a cincept. They did understand the concept but it was not necessarily an edit of the earliest beliefs. They were Jews and even many Jews do not believe in hell. Sheol is literally a Roman/ Greek concept that was adapted but he idea was not prevelent or believed in by the earliest of followers that we can asertain from the earliest documents. Any concept of hell thst they did have was not important or even comparable to the modern concept. This is all relatively new. It would be like saying that 500 years ago people enjoyed hamburgers because they ate cow and bread. The difference is that profound. This is not to say the references you provided were not seeds for modern hell beliefs.

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I agree that being in a position to meditate on the meaning of life is a privilege not everyone can enjoy. I'm grateful I get to do it. Socrates seems a little callous when he talks about 'the unconsidered life being meaningless'. That would rule out all the people who brought meaning into their lives by their characters rather than their education. I completely see eye-to-eye with your comments on hell and the likelihood there is no afterlife in the sense of a heaven or a paradise. But I suspect those Buddhist monks are on to something....

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The story of hell was meant to control. Religion has always been about a few select attempting to control the masses. Heaven is the same thing....torment or pleasure. I want the pleasure so I'm going to let your control me and tell me what to do....

What makes you think that if anyone does what they are told they will get pleasure in return always?

@Mcflewster It's not what one thinks, it's what one believes.

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