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What are some things that you constantly catch yourself saying to theist arguing for their god?

Here are some of mine.

" There is more attributed to the Bible than is actually IN the bible"

"I no longer believe in the Bible BECAUSE of the bible"

"God changes his mind on a whim so it is true that he is unchanging"

" Do not know but that have anything to do or prove the existance of a god"

"I am an atheist I do not belive there is a god"

"If you want to understand how evolution works study Christianity"

" Atheism is not chosen, it is discovered"- Hitchens

" The test of a false god.
Any god that does not exist requires faith to believe in it. There is no god that does not require faith to believe in it."

"Belief does equate reality"

"If god is unknowable haow can anyone tell me about it?"

" Its just a book". mic drop

DavidLaDeau 8 Jan 28
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16 comments

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1

"I am an atheist."

0

"I am an theist I do not belive there is a god" really?😉

LAMO! Well I takl to alot of theist it makes just as much since as what I hear from them! Yep you have cured me and I will make the correction! Thank God for you! Oops.

1

I have often pointed to people that things they quote me as bible verses are actually Shakespeare, Byron, Lord Tennyson, Franco Zefferelli, Douglas Adams, Blake and on one memorable occasion Victor Mature in Demetrius and the gladiators.
The reverse is also true, when I pointed out You should "Beware of practicing your piety before men in order to be seen by them" to one evangelical, she sneeringly asked me what moron said that, and I was happy to tell her.

It is fun the know their book better than they do. In first peraon experiences people usually get very quiet very quickly.

2

All religions are based on several fraudulent claims:
False history from the Bronze Age dressed up as mythology to become theology.
Supernatural claims, for which no evidence exists.
Fear -- fear of retribution or judgement, from a 'loving' god.

All these premises are false, unproven and invalid. Nothing valid can come from false premises.

This I say, looking them right in the eye.

" False history from the Bronze Age dressed up as mythology to become theology".
I have never heard such an accurate discription of the historical aspect. I do claim to be an amateur historin that specializes in proto-orthodox Christianiaties.

5

If god is omniscient & omnipotent, why did he create Lucifer knowing he would fall and become Satan. If god is omniscient & omnipotent, why did he waste his breath ordering Adam & Eve not to eat of the “forbidden fruit” when he knew they would. If god is omniscient & omnipotent, why did he create humanity knowing he would destroy most of them in a flood, then send his only son to die an agonizing death knowing most would be condemned to eternal perdition. If god is omniscient & omnipotent, why did he give us a brain on the condition we never use it but blindly submit to ignorance? The lord truly works in mysterious ways.

I often get the fre will argument when I point these things out. They consistantly are so brainwashed that they do not understand that it can not exist with a god that knows our every action before hand. So we can not change our future. So we can not have freenwill according to their theology. Since they are taught that it goes both ways they can't see that they are mutally exclusive.

3

I don't generally find myself in this conversation unless someone specifically wants to know what I think. Even then I'm likely to ask for reprieve. It is usually not worth it, and I have no desire or need to proselytize.

If I am somehow roped into the conversation regarding the Christian god, I will usually go directly to things in the Booble, as most people who are Christian are likely to believe it as the final word no matter their denomination. Once there, it's enough to go with the classics:

  • Slavery as an acceptable practice (Exodus)
  • Half the stuff in Leviticus
  • The ridiculousness of god coming to earth as a man to sacrifice himself to himself in order to scapegoat himself for himself. Then proceed to rip the trinity concept to pieces if they bring THAT stupid position up.
  • The no-free-will argument - i.e. "God's Plan or Not God's Plan?"

And a few others.

If I've been cornered and I need a true hail mary, Exodus 21 does it every time. If they argue that the Booble is infallible, recite Exodus 21. Then ask them if they believe in slavery. If they say no, then you have them by the throat - decide from there where to go. If they say "it was okay back then," ask them why the time period should make a difference, and go from there.

I give credit to Matt Dillahunty for the last one. It's pretty rock solid.

That's some pretty sick shit.
I usually declare myself to be an Atheist if they bring up religion and am not afraid to discuss it. I don't have a memory for Booble verses so site Thom Payne's Age Of Reason. I do think it's important to remind us Atheists that people generally don't have a change of mind while in discussion about a subject. Generally it happens later, after they've had time to consider the conversation and do some research. It's very hard to say how many people we affect and don't but the public is becoming less religious.

@rainmanjr +1 for bringin' on the Payne.

Edit: +1 more for being a fellow resident of Vegas.

You bring up a good point. In the heat of debate, or even in polite conversation, it is very difficult for someone to concede another person's view as superior. People naturally have a lot of pride in their point of view and many people cannot stand to admit in the moment when they see the other side's points beat theirs. A "change of heart" is usually admitted later, if at all.

How do you approach the trinity?

@DavidLaDeau First you have to make sure your debate/discussion partner has not been through the rigors of the argument from the St. Gregory school of apologist theory, which you can read through an example of here:

[bethinking.org]

If they have that convoluted perspective and training, they might be able to out-circular-argument you if they're clever enough.

If you've established that your debate partner has only a layman's understanding of the trinity concept (and let's face it, few people have that, even), then you just ask questions that put them in the position of having to defend their understanding, basically forcing them to figure out for you how 1+1+1 could possibly equal 1. They really can't do it in any way that can't be countered. Eventually they will have to relent and refer to the Booble...but the Booble contains no specific references to a trinity concept that I've been able to find.

Rather than list out the specific tactical questions, I'll provide a halfway decent resource:

[plato.stanford.edu]

@Shawno1972 Bart Ehrman did a fine job of it. "I am a father, a husband, and a son."
The problem with the idea trinity is we know exactly when it was FORGED into the Bible when tha Latin Vulgate was written. It simply was the addition of holy ghost to one passage that said the father and the son.

@DavidLaDeau Except that what Bart refers to is only the titling ergonomics of a single entity. It's still one entity. The Trinity concept asserts that there are specific physical and metaphysical differences between the father, son, and holy ghost. To whit: you cannot be your own son. It makes absolutely no sense. But in the trinity idea, that's precisely what's asserted. Now square that contradiction with yet a third parameter, a holy ghost, which is supposed to be yet a separate entity. Good luck.

Now, if we want to assert that Gob just has a split personality and a trickster mentality, I can get behind that idea.

@Shawno1972 Okay thank you for the clarification. I somehow misunderstood you intent. You are right. They just throw down god magic in this case. Another God of the gaps in the basket!

@Shawno1972 Me too once the fact has been established that there is a god.

4

The bible is the most reprehensible book I have ever read.
The bible contains so many contradictions that it takes contorted logic and improbable conjecture to try and reconcile them.

6

i don't constantly find myself saying anything at all to theists. i don't care what people believe. i care how people behave. i want separation of church and state, not my neighbors' heads on a platter. if someone gets confrontational with me (and it is almost always online) i am capable of arguing with them if i'm in the mood, but my goal in life is not to "convert" strangers to atheism.

g

I think of any conversation as merely passing on some information that they don't, or haven't, gotten from somewhere else. If it changes their lives then grand for all concerned.

@rainmanjr so shall i seek out such people and lecture them? i do not generally encounter them except very occasionally on facebook and i am not going to get embroiled in an argument unless there is more to be gained. i have enough to do.

g

Since I have a YouTube channel that is focused on helping fundamentalist escape religion I daily get pushback. I do not try to convert at all. First it is not possible to convert to atheism as it is not a religion. Second I only attempt to get people simply to ask themselves why they believe what they do. That is all that is necessary.

@genessa I'm not suggesting you lecture anyone. Lecturing, or getting embroiled in argument, doesn't make anyone listen. You can simply make a reply to their assertions and leave it for them to extract the meaning of your thought. If it resonates then it will have an impact so try to make some good replies. Often, a wry joke or hard to argue piece of wisdom is enough.

@rainmanjr I have other fish to fry. When i feel so inclined on those uncommon occasions when i am approached on the subject, i respond. Otherwise i do not. I do not feel obligated, and it isn't even something i encounter on a regular basis.

g

3

“Prove it.”

2

"It is trivial to show that the God of the Bible cannot exist."

"Where is your falsifiable evidence to support your existence claim of your God?"

Theists tend to go very silent after either of the above.

" It is trivial to show that the God of the Bible can not exist" I have an entire youtube channel that is dedicated to just that. When believer undertand that the Bible can not be true, It helps people to dump the myth.

2

I find it useless to waste time on people who are brainwashed to never accept facts.

5

That’s nice for you. These potatoes are so delicious. What’s the sauce?

5

I don’t argue with them.
It’s easier, faster, less painful, and less frustrating to knock down a brick wall with your head, than to argue logic to those who are not logical.
Live and let live. They can believe whatever bullshit they want, long as it doesn’t affect my rights.

Problem is that it very well might affect your rights. Better to offer those conversations, I think, so that they might not.

@rainmanjr I hear you, but I don’t argue with family, friends, etc.
I choose my battles to places where I have a chance of making a difference versus giving myself an evil headache.

@CarolinaGirl60 So only argue your values to people who don't care about you one way or the other? That seems very safe without being defining. I prefer my family knows who I am and what I stand for. If they don't like it then they can stop inviting me over.

@rainmanjr You misunderstand what I wrote.
My family and friends ALREADY know what my values, thoughts, and opinions are; they know where our views diverge. I know those things about them, too. I don’t feel the need to argue at every meeting, when we already know where we stand.
It’s not a matter of safety, it’s a matter of respect.
For example: my 78-year-old dad watches Fox News and is a conservative; he will argue anyone if they want to debate him....but I don’t want to. He’s my dad; I love him and I’m not going to fight with him.

If your thing is to engage with everyone you know, go for it and enjoy. That’s just not MY thing.

0

I’d feel like saying get a life loser, but I’d probably say I don’t have time for this. See ya.

3

Unless you can cite something other than the Bible as proof, I don't want to hear it.

Also, the Bible is so full of contradictions, it's a wonder anyone believes it at all.

4

Hello..
How are you?
Really?
Have a nice day.
Thank you
Pass the salt and pepper please.

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