Religion is not the source of morality, as we all here know, everything is natural and does come from nature via us. BUT. The important point about religion is that it unbalances any debate over morality or anything else. Because it enables those who accept it to claim an extra, 'supernatural', authority for their individual views.
So that, for example. When some men wish to dominate women for their own selfish motives, they can add extra force and power to themselves, by claiming the backing of the supernatural, (a boogeyman called god especially,) who THEY often claim invented or inspired their morally. Though of course they invented it themselves just like everyone else.
That is why religion is, and increasingly is, only a source of bad ideas, especially in areas such morality, ( evil ideas if you like, though I do not believe in the idea of evil as such, but it will serve as short hand here ). Because when once people realized, perhaps five or six thousand years ago, that they could do secular philosophy, and debate things like morality publicly and rationally, ( It did not have to wait for science, even though that is wrongly seen as the only natural opponent of religion, it happened long before that.) then we lived in a world where good ideas could be propagated, debated and presented freely to anyone. Which left religion with only the role of promoting bad (evil) ideas, since that was the only trade left in the market place. It did of course inherit and get infected with a few good ideas, which it kept, as long as they were those that could be made to live with the evil ones without conflict, so that it could present them at the front of the shop as a smiling face to sell the product.
But the trouble gets worse today, because as science, secular philosophy, and secular democratic government grow, and become more competent at their jobs, then increasingly religion turns to evil. Becoming more and more the place where evil ideas go to fester, escape public scrutiny and propagate themselves among the weak and immoral. It has to do that because that is the only game left in town for religion to turn to.
The point is not that religion does not do a lot of good, or that good people do not belong to religions, the point is that the direction that it has now got to take is that of promoting bad ideas, simply because it has nowhere else to go. So that while there are now many good ideas in religion, and it may in the past have done much good, it will increasingly attract bad people, because they have nowhere else to go as secular morality improves, and it will find that the only thing it can sell are bad ideas because others are selling the good ones better.
(Copied from a comment in Religious Naturalism.)
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.Thank you for this. I will post a similar but different fact. One big piece of evidence for what religion has and does do, comes from history.
JackPedigo
Level 9
Feb 9, 2020
1
Excellent outline.so well written Breaks one’s heart to say it is true, I wanted our next generations to have better. For all of us. I wanted better as s woman, and for men, too. Sigh.
KittensandSage
Level 6
Feb 9, 2020
2
I attended a concert last night. At the beginning an older man stepped forward (he was the MC and later one of the musicians). He said that asst. community center manager and his wife were expecting their first child and everyone was excited (not really). He also said that the world is getting very bad and it would effect future generations. He said he was sure that it would be the future generation that would deal with the problems we have. My view of his little talk was; we have screwed up the world (and would continue doing so) but we will pass the buck to the next generation to fix. Sorry, but I have a a big problem hearing that sort of rhetoric. The next generation can't have it better if we don't take personal actions now and simply use the next generation to fix our messes.
That works perhaps for one, fairly narrow, understanding of the word, "religion" but not for all scholarly, or even popular, understandings. Other well-informed and well-reasoned views exist.
skado
Level 9
Feb 7, 2020
0
Yes but the whole point is, that the reigions with 'scholarly, well informed and well reasoned views' are fading and declining, it is only the hate pedaling religions which grow, because you can get scholarly, well informed and well reasoned views, from many places without the burden of religion, only the hate filled religions offer a refuge for the hateful which they can not find in mainstream culture.
@TheMiddleWay Yes but the whole point is, that the reigions with 'scholarly, well informed and well reasoned views' are fading and declining, it is only the hate pedaling religions which grow, because you can get scholarly, well informed and well reasoned views, from many places without the burden of religion, only the hate filled religions offer a refuge for the hateful which they can not find in mainstream culture. And that is a universal truth, about the two divisions of religion.
@skado No it is all of religion, both the seemingly moral and benign half, which is fading fast, and the immoral criminal element which grows and prospers. All the wishing and dreaming in the world can not turn the tides of history when the inevitable powerful trends are established. The Roman empire may have built good roads and brought law and order to many, but all the praise heaped on it by its admirers could not stop the growth of class divisions and corruption, the advance of drying deserts, economic decay nor the increasing isolation of a centralised government and the growing respect for local tribal government, bringing it down.
@skado Of course the thing called religion will continue, it has always reinvented itself, that is just what I am saying. And the way in which it is reinventing itself at this time, is as a criminal organization for the benefit of the least moral sections of society. Because it has so much more to offer them than it does to everyone else: a perfect refuge where they can escape the scrutiny of society at large, a home where increasingly they can meet like minded people, a perfect mechanism for twisting immoral desires into sham goodness and a screen of respectability to hide behind.
I don't feel that main stream religions will knowingly entertain evil ideas of morality as a way to remain relevant and/or popular. They may be naive but they sure as hell are not dumb they will know that promoting evil will lead to their demise. The world is becoming a smaller place and once the cat is out of the bag public humiliation will ensue swiftly.
Christianity in the UK is becoming very liberal for example the emergence of gay priests along with liberal values are how the Englishh churches are dealing with the problem of becoming less valid.
Nardi
Level 7
Feb 7, 2020
2
True but the English churches are dying despite embracing good ideas. Because they are in a market place where many others are selling good ideas at far less a price. Yet the hard line evangelicals and the racist churches grow and prosper.
@TheMiddleWay I didn't understand what it said about atheists and declining share of the worlds total population.
I tend to reject most "arguments" promoting someone else's "morality".
Almost invariably, the religious folks who spout off about morality tend to be really immoral beings.
I'll keep my own counsel about what I think is moral and what isn't.
I trust my own judgment way more than theirs. Always have. Always will.
KKGator
Level 9
Feb 7, 2020
1
If god is the source of morality then it is subjective. If god is not the source of morality god is not necessary.
I disagree with the authors statement that "which left religion with the ONLY role of promoting bad ideas". The idea of Christianity is doing good in the modern theology. The ideas of what they BELIEVE is good can certianally be called into question. Religion does not TURN to evil. It does not care. It does teach much evil but it is not the purpose or intent. Religion is made up of good people with many bad ideas. This being said there are many good ideas such as feeding the poor.
Statements like this make me just as sick as dealing with the religious.
DavidLaDeau
Level 8
Feb 7, 2020
0
The point is not that religion does not do a lot of good, or that good people do not belong to religions, the point is that the direction that it has now got to take is that of promoting bad ideas, simply because it has nowhere else to go. So that while there are now many good ideas in religion, and it may in the past have done much good, it will increasingly attract bad people, because they have nowhere else to go as secular morality improves, and it will find that the only thing it can sell are bad ideas because others are selling the good ones better.
@Fernapple You said it much better. That may be the case. The rant lost me.
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