Ladies! Could you, would you, after being Seriously cheated on for decades by your extremely-good-liar spouse, and having to get counseling after the shit hit the fan, ever allow yourself to fall for another (self-professed!) cheater? Even though in every other way he is a great guy?
FWB, fine.....give them my mangled heart, never! You?
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.I'm going to be in the minority here with a "yes" answer.
Backstory: Married for 20 years to a serial narcissistic liar. Didn't discover his infidelities until well after the first decade because a) I didn't want to believe it, and b) he was damn good at covering his behaviors.
I did get counseling that showed me it wasn't my fault (narcissists are excellent at placing blame elsewhere). He was charming ("...a great guy" ) as narcissists tend to be.
The betrayal was HUGE. The discovery of his lying needs to get what he wanted were HUGE.
So why in the hell would I say yes to another relationship, and especially to someone who "cheats"? Because when honesty of behavior is there, the behavior is the only issue--deception is off the table. It isn't cheating when honesty is there.
I currently have an incredibly close relationship with a man who is seeing two other women. He is honest with me about it, he has his sexual needs for multiple partners being met. He has no plans to marry. He hopes that I can also find satisfaction with more than one partner, as that is biologically what we are designed to do (patriarchial culture notwithstanding).
I used to believe in the "one man/one woman" mantra of our culture, and then I read Dr. Darrell Ray's book on God and Sex, which opened my eyes to the biological motivations of human sexuality sans the cultural indoctrination of religious dogma. It explained why I was never satisfied with just one man, and yet not able to act on the sexual needs driving my libido. And it erased the shame of behaviors in my younger years that culturally cast the specter of "whore" over some of them.
So if you cannot come to terms with biological issues of human sexuality, I think you are letting the culture of insecurity and patriarchy drive your choices. A woman's fear of being cheated on stem from the idea of competition for men and insecurity of social status wrapped up in centuries of women being "property" of little value. Christianity's focus on virginity is a prime example of this.
I am beyond all of that, and am autonomous in my love of both self and others. It's a great feeling.
Ellen-SoCal
Level 5
Mar 7, 2020
2
I would actually have No problem with an HONEST relationship, I think, as I am not looking for live-in or anything like it. But if someone has told you that in the past, he "went out looking" and lied over andextended time, whole 'mnther ball of wax. I could even get over "workplace propinquity" or that kind of "accidental" thing, I think, but to go out with "malice aforethought", as the lawyers say....no
Anne, I'm replying to you in this comment, although I cannot do it directly as the site is designed.
We have been so indoctrinated to believe in monogamy for both genders by
- culture
- faith/dogma
- property laws, and
- shame in religion for control.
When closely examined, one can finally see that every one of these is a construct of patriarchy and man-made. Thus for me at least, it is all a bunch of hogwash and appropriately discarded.
You were hurt by the deception and perceived lack of self worth (again structured by our culture that women must not be "good enough" to keep a man "at home".) <--where's the rolling eyes emoji when I need one?
Sexual power has been used by patriarchy for centuries to deny people pleasure for pleasure's sake.
I realize I'm in the minority in postulating all of this, because our culture propagates uncertainty in sexuality from babyhood.
I finally grew out of that...
Isn't a self-proclaimed cheater an oxymoron?
mooredolezal
Level 7
Mar 3, 2020
1
He was telling me about his past, where he, quote, "went on the prowl"
I cannot even imagine being cheated on for decades and for someone to be such a good liar that they leave no clues or red flags. But when an ex in the past confessed to cheating, and tried to downplay its seriousness by saying it wasn't sex (idiot) I dumped him. So idk if I'd give a self-proclaimed cheater a chance.
demifeministgal
Level 8
Feb 25, 2020
1
Once a sneak, always a sneak, IMO, I think there is intrinsic "fun" in it for them, over the sex.
There were in fact a lot of odd instances that, trusting fool I was, allowed to be explained away.
Like my doctor said (the most helpful words I got in the aftermath) "you are not to blame for trusting someone you should be able to trust". I am not, nor ever will be, an odometer-checker, or anything like it. Ugh!
@AnneWimsey Reading about experiences like yours, I am glad I am not more trusting. But, at the same time, I too have been temporarily blinded by love-bombing and waved away red flags. I just do not know if narcs can sustain love bombing long term. My only experience prior to that with a narcissist was a hostile one and she never love bombed us. So, I didn't even know narcissists could love bomb! 
@AnneWimsey I can relate. When you want to trust someone, and believe you should be able to trust him, and can't fathom that he would deliberately do you so much harm, you give him the benefit of the doubt... even to the point of sometimes ignoring that tiny voice in the back of your mind screaming "This seems really fishy!"
@Deb57 Exactly what happened! Thanks for your words!
Can a guy slip a comment in here? Look at all the "no"s! But having perused a number of ladies' profiles on dating sites over the years, I've seen a LOT of them that tell stories of having dated/married a long list of serial liars/cheaters. Long ago I used to write them (but no longer) to point out that they're probably hooking-up with the obvious wrong guys again and again because they go for clones of the same guy... tall, dark, handsome, with a hot car and that elusive, but always demanded, "sense of humor". And by admitting online they fall for liars and cheaters, they're baiting the hook for more. My advice wasn't appreciated. My own observations (real world, not online) show this to be basically true. Gals often make the same mistake, repeatedly. There's a question on OK Cupid" "Would you rather date a guy who's extremely honest, or extremely attractive". An astonishing number of ladies go for the "attractive" one.
mtnhome
Level 7
Feb 24, 2020
1
I agree with you. They seem to keep going for the charming/exciting bullshit artists and never get around to us boring guys who don't lie or cheat.
@BitFlipper Lying gets one nowhere unless the other person wants to be lied to. It is my opinion that many people, men, and women alike, want and think that there must be chaos in a relationship for there to be love. The strong feeling that goes with bad feelings, the tension, betrayal all seem to go with the excitement that is mistaken for love. Most it seems have no idea what love really is as they have never experienced it. I, of course, am generalizing. Thoughts?
@dalefvictor You may be onto something. I'm one of those guys women tell their stories to - and boy have I heard enough of those stories! They sure do like that excitement! As far as men go, I don't know how chaos fits in. Most of my male friends are smart, organized, and single. So, maybe for men, the absence of chaos means the absence of a relationship.
@BitFlipper I have no idea as for what seems to be a long time I did not seem to be attracting women. Then I think back and it seems like there were always one or two that hung around. Perhaps I am one of those people who has to be hit with a 2 x 4 to get the idea. I had no idea I was being hit on at the time. I guess I finally got the message as I did find the love of my life, coming up on thirty.
@dalefvictor That's another interesting perspective. Women who communicate telepathically. I don't need to be hit with a 2x4, a simple word or gesture would suffice.
Every time I think I've received a subtle hint I've always been DEAD wrong, embarrassingly wrong, humiliatingly wrong. I can't handle any more of those, it takes too long to recover.
Perhaps the presence of chaos motivates women to communicate. Or maybe it's just the chaos that attracts them.
I have Never been swayed by looks,or $$, in any way...just not important vs. Your "Heart". I admire/ love people with standards & values of honesty.....the downside, I guess, is I assume you are the same until you prove otherwise, meaning I waste a lot of time kissing frogs.
@dalefvictor my married life was actually kind of. Boring, and my attempts to spice it up were rebuffed.....repeatedly. You are only going to enter in a tiny teddy & "fuck me" shoes a few times, and be told, I" am going to clean the cellar" however. His thrill was in being Extremely sneaky, apparently.
Chaos? Nope......
@BitFlipper I leave my ego at home, that way it cannot get hurt. I interact with several people a day. Basically I am a cave dweller, I mean I work in a place with other mates working around me, but after work, I go home to care for my wife, that is if I do not have to do the shopping, which I do all of. When I interact with people who do not know me they can say almost anything to me as I really do not care if they try to insult me or say something good and courteous. I try to turn to humor, if that does not work I walk away paying no attention. So far I have not had to do this more than once or twice as everyone knows I am easy going and am competent at my job. I do not talk about politics or religion, period.
@dalefvictor I don't know how "ego" found it's way into this thread, but here it is. I'm not sure I could locate my ego on a diagram, but I believe it's part of me. And I'm not seeing how a detachable ego would improve my ability to interpret coded messages. But thanks.
@BitFlipper there was No excitement whatsoever for 33 years. WTH are you talking about...?
@AnneWimsey I've lost track of this conversation. I don't see any reference to 33 years. WTH are you talking about?
@BitFlipper the length of my marriage to this guy....you two are assuming there was lots of drama, and somehow it was attractive. It was by far the Dullest time of my entire life, and I am working hard now on making up for lost time
Absolutely not. If my former spouse had been honest with me about his marital infidelity track record he would have never been allowed through the door of my house. Once you know a man has lied to his wife, the ONLY thing you know about him is that he will lie to his wife.
Deb57
Level 8
Feb 24, 2020
1
Nope - I think too highly of myself. But then, probably wouldn't have been married to a cheater for decades either ...
evergreen
Level 8
Feb 24, 2020
2
If I had a dime for every person who told me what a great guy/fine character he was I wouldn't need the alimony.......
@AnneWimsey Sounds like my father, and he never paid my mom a dime of child support!
No. No. NO.... never, never, never. To be a cheater is to be a liar, and I don't want to be associated with a liar. My heart was irreparably damaged by the ex and I will never put myself in that position ever again.
LizBeth
Level 7
Feb 24, 2020
5
My feelings Exactly! Hugs!
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