This is not about Bernie and Biden. This is about the power of the Senate. We desperately need it to be in different hands and the only way for that to happen is to take some Republican seats and ditch Mcconnell. Millennials need to realize that even if we elect Bernie, if the republicans still control the Senate we are still screwed. If trump is re elected, the senate could save us from more of his garbage being enacted. Please think about how our government works. Trump has literally no checks or balances now. The Senate is the key.

I think that last time they, the party leaders and establishment, knew that we " meant it", they just didn't care. And they still don't care, if we stay home or vote third party. All they care about is maintaining their privileges and favors between themselves and lobbyists and rich donors. So what they care about is stopping Bernie. Threatening them about the general election is useless because the ugly truth is they are fine with Trump if it means keeping Bernie out of power where he could end their corruption and privilege.

@TomMcGiverin exactly!!! So what do we do? They’re screwing us on voting... what other power do we The People have? I feel like it’s just worthless to try anymore.

@TattedIrishXx The only power we have left would be to get out in the streets like the Europeans with their yellow vests and raise hell, but even then it would take more than that in America and most Americans are not revolutionary-minded like that. Our leaders would just ignore mass protests like they already do when it's against war. In America it would take a mass movement with tens of millions hitting the streets coupled with general strikes and mass non-cooperation with corporate America. Anything less would not be powerful enough and I don't see enough Americans up for that, esp. when most of them are too saddled with debt to take the risk or have the time to get involved.

Except which idea?

@RoboGraham oopsy.. The spell checker strikes again! I meant excellent..

@Cutiebeauty

I hate that.

They'd rather employ that same losing strategy they tried in 16 of running a corporatist moderate with a very questionable record and accept the high risk of losing to Trump again than allow Bernie to get into power and change things for the better.

@RoboGraham

You are correct.

Those same people here, are giving Bernie supporters a lecture about voting, regardless of who is the nominee. "Suck it up and vote" they say.
Those same people have made it clear that if it's Bernie, they'll vote for Trump.

@Athena Exactly! I am so fucking sick of the hypocrisy on this issue by Dem centrists, the party leaders and the party establishment. Their real position is " Everyone must vote blue and support the nominee, as long as it's not Bernie. Of course, if it is Bernie, none of this applies..." Fucking hypocrites!

@TomMcGiverin

I'm feeling much contempt toward them.

The establishment should put this comment into a campaign add.

Just fucking kick a kitten and vote for our shitty nominee. Very inspiring stuff.

People with integrity have a hard time voting for corruption, or for putting people who screw other people (not in the good way) into government, regardless of what's there now.

When someone feels lied to, betrayed, or denied their rights to things by the type of person stated above, voting for them can feel impossible. I believe a few people on here have felt that way about Bernie and stated it clearly.

"If Bernie is the nominee, I will vote for Trump."

Whining and bitching as you say, is not an option as an elixir for the Bernie vote. Just "scream into the wind" doesn't work when it's not the person they/you want?

@RoboGraham The establishment should put this comment into a campaign add.

Yes, they should. Its in Bernie platform, btw. Isn't he the canidate who's going to inspire all those people who don't vote to go to the polls? How'd that work out?

@Athena I know, they whine on and on about how no ones perfect enough to deserve thier vote, like thier vote is as precious as the virginity of a baby. There's a reason the right to vote us called sugfferage. Its not just a right, it's an obligation. Sometimes the proccess gives you someone you want to vote for, sometimes who you'd like to vote for dropped out a long time ago and all you can do is pick who you can't stand the least.

It sucks, doesn't give us what we want a good portion of the time, and is frustrating as hell. But you know what? You can actually do something. You can even run for office - and i have to wonder why we don't see more democratic socialists on local ballots?

@1of5

It's pretty challenging to get people who typically don't vote to turn up for a primary. The idea is that they will show up for the general if a populist is on the ballot.

@RoboGraham Then please, how is Bernie supposed to win the general if he can't turn out the vote in the primaries? All I hear (not all, granted, but a whole lot of it) is that Bernie energizes people to get active and vote.

This is easily measurable, and in fact we are doing it right now. That is, in fact, why you guys are so pissed off right now - it isn't meeting your expectations. Welcome to politics.

@1of5

Nice dodge.

No, it's to fucking vote. So do it.

@1of5

Most people show up because they want to vote for president and they vote for down ballot races while they're at it. If someone they are excited about isn't running, they are less likely to show up.

If it's Biden, I'll still show up to vote for the down ballot contestants but most people won't bother.

@RoboGraham yeah, they don't fucking vote in non presidential elections. You know who does? Republicans.

I know, thier precious widdle canidate isn't on the ballot so thier going to punish everyone who doesn't believe like they do. Fucking wankers.

@1of5

When there is no candidate on the ballot that is likeable, people aren't likely to show up. That's the way it is.

There are two options in dealing with this reality.

1. Run a candidate who people will vote for with enthusiasm.

2. Shame and blame the non-voters for the unpopular candidate's loss.

I'll leave you to decide which is more effective.

@RoboGraham That's the way it is.
Tough shit on both sides. Its a virtual impossibility to have a canidate that everyone likes. Thats how people are, it's called reality.

See that's the problem. If the voters vote with enthusiasm and thier guy doesn't win they lose thier enthusiasm to vote again. To much emotional investment. A lose or 2 and you got jack shit for turnout.

Voting is as much an obligation as a right. Its not supposed to be fun, or exciting. Its a job. Its ugly, often unfair to an individual (or group, which is why we have a judiciary and constitution), divisive, contentious, and the only voice we have.

I will deride anyone who complains about politics but chooses not to vote. I will shame them, call them names and curse thier memories. Thats how importaint I think voting is. Typically I don't even care who one votes for because it is thier choice, not mine. I respect someone who voted for Trump much more than I respect someone who didn't vote because thier dream canidate isn't on the ballot.

I'll leave it to you to surmise how much I respect Trumps fucking moronic voters.

@1of5

Tough shit on both sides but it seems to always be the progressives who are expected to vote for a candidate they didn't want. It's never the other way around and no wonder, with the establishment putting their thumbs on the scales to get their people nominated, it will continue to be this way.

I don't actually think there are many people who excited to vote for Biden. He is coasting on name recognition and familiarity. People just want Trump gone and see him as the safe choice. I think the blue no matter who people will vote for Bernie but not the other way around. With Joe, there is little enthusiasm anyway.

I don't see voting as an obligation. It is a Civic duty but people can abstain if they choose to. I agree that anyone who doesn't bother to perform that Civic duty and then complains ought to be told to shut up. However, when you live in a two party system and both parties refuse to give decent options, I can sympathize. I say vote third party, write in, vote no confidence, whatever participate, make your voice heard.

I image you have very little respect for Trump voters, same here.

Bernie is a good man. I like Liz as well. My big fear is that the dems are going to go with the candidate that protects their bank accounts the best.....and that ain't Bernie.

PROVE ME WRONG, DEMOCRATS. I BEG OF YOU!

Still better than trump

@bobwjr Yeah, but not much. I think we need higher standards than that.

We've been fucked since 2016. Getting half unfucked is better than getting twice as fucked.

@OwlInASack yes he is expanding affordable care act to eliminate that

@OwlInASack the original affordable care act was more comprehensive but Senate republicans watered it down under direction of their insurance company owners