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I'd like to make an analogy to dead religions and the Jesus story. Thinking about this virus that's going around and what it means to go viral. When a virus gets hold of a population after a certain point it will spread like wild fire including a viral video. A viral video spreads in the same way a biological virus spreads. Enough people were convinced of the Jesus story that it actually went viral with many reinforcing accounts from many people. There have been many other religions thru out history but most didn't go viral hence they died out. We as a human species are stuck with christianity because of the pathology of viruses. Maybe we can get rid of it by using methods people use to get rid of a biological virus. Then we can move on as a human species to do bigger and better things. Using science and technology and logic to make the world a better place for everyone and everything.

SunnyK 3 Mar 24
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Wrong sir.... the xians grew in influence due to Roman political culture of military cults and official gawds/icons....hebrew aramaic and arabic cults all are rooted in the Mediterranean Sea.....African Asian Polynesian and "American" tribal religions are not "infected" by your alleged virus nor have all religions died out for lack of viral attributes

Wrong sir there are literally hundreds of religious movement and cults on the earth today let alone thru history. I was just reading about a cult with 5 thousand followers of some charismatic guy in Siberia. If he gets enough followers that religion might go viral and become a main stream religion ala mormanism. You don't even understand the concept of what I'm trying to convey. Quit tagging me to and don't state the obvious like all religions haven't died out. That's my whole point anyway Totally went over your head but such is life. And by the way all religions that aren't in the mainstream did die out for lack of viral attributes da.

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What I've noticed is that a well-crafted lie, tailored specifically to appeal to preexisting fear/ anger/ prejudice, tends to be believed immediately and thereafter because it is comforting in a time of uncertainty and insecurity--even if it is absurd at face value, has no evidence to back it up, has experts saying it is wrong, or has known liars propagating it.

So few stop to think, "If that is true, it would be obvious to everyone involved. It would be clear in the numbers. The people who work with these kinds of problems every day would have clear insight into this. So...IS it obvious to everyone involved? IS it clear in the numbers? DO the people who work with these kinds of problems every day have clear insight?"

Basically, what kinds of things would I expect to see if this were true? Do I see ANY of them?

If the answer is no, do not pass on to your neighbors that drinking hand sanitizer or bleach will cure Covid-19 (or aquarium cleaner tablets).

I just watched the HBO documentary "After Truth". What I noticed, that wasn't commented on in the documentary, is that the more the lies are delivered with an angry/fearful us/them tone, the more the listener falls prey to believing them. How could the speaker be wrong when they are THAT angry about it? (Hannity, Alex Jones, etc.) I couldn't understand how a random dude could take a gun and go to a pizza parlor thinking there was a sex trafficking dungeon in the (non-existent) basement run by famous politicians and celebrities, until I realized he was listening to Alex Jones continuously, reinforced by an internet underbelly.

There is a religious fervor element here. If you don't believe Crazy Thing X with as much passion, anger, or fear as the rest of us, you are not one of us. You are not only alone, not only ostracized, but despised and hated as the enemy.

1

A vaccine for religious thought is just the thing this world needs, it would save more lives by far than a vaccine for COVID-19.

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At least it is a nice hope.

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I have, in past post and discussions, explained to people how to go about possibly eliminating Christianity and Masonic Lodge secret religion racist devil worship.

One, it is not a simple explination to back up this synopsis of a statement: Biblical text theme follows out of Egypt Osiris/Horus Father to Son/Father reincarnation myth and the New Testiment is written as eye witness statements that it really occured as Jesus being angelic lord of host lucifer the devil leading the Masonic Lodge secret religion racist devil worshipers in such as but not limited to therir capitalism wage slave labor.

Two, if Christianity, Masonic Lodge secret religion racist devil worship government terrorism European invadors and the general public, in general, were to understand this, then it could potentially bring them to an end for Christians are not Christians because they think they are worshiping the devil, but rather they think they are worshiping the oposite. So to ask the queation, "If Christians understood how the biblical text actually indicates that Jesus is lucifer the devil, do you really think they would want to continue being Christians?"

Three, we could then enjoy freedom of free brick homes for everyone on Earth from this Masonic Lodge secret religion racist devil worship most commonly known as United States of America since their freedom from England July 4, 1776 to rape this land, it's wealth and resourses from those of the original indigenous inhabitants that had been here for 1000s of years prior that have been called such things, but not limited to, Mexican, Indian and Native Americans.

As to Osiris of Egypt:

He was married to his sister Isis, who was goddess of the sky and love. Isis and Osiris had a child Horus, who is believed by many to be a reincarnation of Osiris. 

John 14:9 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

Osiris is usually identified as the God of the afterlife, the underworld and the dead. He is also called the King of eternity, King of the living, Master of souls; He who appears as ram in Mendes, and the Sovereign of Amenti.(1) Another curious title that you will find for Osiris is the “Morning Star.”

This same Morning Star of Osiris found in the Book of the Dead, appears to be the same Morning Star that we can find in the Book of Revelation, where Saint John says, “I will give him the Morning Star (Rev. ii. 29).  

John 1:1 In the beginning was the logos, the logos was with God and was God.  

Logos,  thought/word capabilities.  What is anything with out cognition or thinking ability? 

What is the highest of concepts to understand? Knowledge of good and evil. 

Can cognition create? As written, Jesus character say: ... that born of pneuma is Pnuema.  I think "Ruach"would be used instead of Pnuema if originally written in Hebrew.   Ruach and Pnuema translated into English is Spirit which as a connotation of ghost.  This I think is an error to use spirit with or as a connotation for ghost.  

Jesus character referred to himself as "son of man". The man (people) having the Egyptian logos thoughts spoke Jesus character into existence.  This follows with other themes of biblical ideals the "God" created by simply speaking it into existence.   Speaking words is force with information.   Ruach is a force. Air molecules have a force with intellageable pattern when words are spoken.

The biblical text follows out of Egypt and most do not understand nor know the connections that the biblical text actually saying in new testiment that the Egyptian stories come true.

The LORD Almighty will bless them, saying, "Blessed be Egypt my people, Assyria my handiwork, and Israel my inheritance." Isaiah 19:25

The "Lord" of Israel was Egyptian.

As to Osiris of Egypt:
But he did not just represent death in the physical world, also rebirth or what you may call being born again.

a)   John 3:3 

Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."

As to Osiris of Egypt:
He was married to his sister Isis, who was goddess of the sky and love. Isis and Osiris had a child Horus, who is believed by many to be a reincarnation of Osiris.

John 14:9 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

Osiris is usually identified as the God of the afterlife, the underworld and the dead. He is also called the King of eternity, King of the living, Master of souls; He who appears as ram in Mendes, and the Sovereign of Amenti.(1) Another curious title that you will find for Osiris is the “Morning Star.”

This same Morning Star of Osiris found in the Book of the Dead, appears to be the same Morning Star that we can find in the Book of Revelation, where Saint John says, “I will give him the Morning Star (Rev. ii. 29).

The uneducated with no interest in mystical traditions and the esoteric may regard Ancient Egypt as little more than a place of pagan worship, strange hieroglyphics, and monuments erected by thousands of Hebrew slaves. But those more learned, especially those having undertaken the initiative rituals of Freemasonry, will see a link between the Egyptian metaphysical tradition and modern mystery schools, of which Freemasonry is one. www dot gaia dot com /article/ancient-egypt-and-freemasonry

Lord of host Lucifer the devil leading the Masonic lodge secret religion racist devil worshippers in the establishment of the mark of the beast 666 identification for taxation and government control. No justice for the innocent, more children can be trained to speak and act abused to wrongfully prosecute innocent people especially those that oppose there Masonic lodge secret religion racist devil worship "my teacher made me touch her p.p ". Take the original indigenous inhabitants of their land call it America call them such as Mexicans, Indians and native Americans

Word Level 8 Mar 25, 2020
0

The idea you are describing is called memetics, a relatively new field within biology, introduced by Richard Dawkins in his book The Selfish Gene. Religion or pieces of culture are viewed as replicators, just like genes are, which obey biological principles.

A completely dismissed field within biology you mean, as exemplified by the only peer-reviewed journal devoted to it shutting down in 2005.


Like other critics, Maria Kronfeldner has criticized memetics for being based on an allegedly inaccurate analogy with the gene; alternately, she claims it is "heuristically trivial", being a mere redescription of what is already known without offering any useful novelty.

[en.wikipedia.org]

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The flaw in your analogy, actually many flaws. Is that there's too many religions that are not dead and are even more viral (more followers) like Islam. Hinduism, Buddhism or still alive but less followed like Mormons, jewish, scientologists, and many dead but not forgotten and are now mythology like the egyptian Osiris et al, the norse Odin et al, the roman Jupiter et al or Greek Zeus et al.

I didn't imply that christianity was the only one that went viral. It's just the example I picked meaning any religion that lasted went viral. I guarantee you there have been thousands of religions that died out thruogh out history that you don't know about. Do you know why? They didn't go viral. Geeshh. It totally went over your head.

@SunnyK you're just defending a flawed analogy or theory. I didn't give you all the examples I can. Regardless, I read, I don't use crystal balls to find out what your implications may intend to do. Regardless of the numbers you eant to make up without mentioning any significant one even, your theory is incorrect.

0

the scientific method
test everything, and keep what is good

anyway, really liking the virus angle, but be sure the virus is IDed correctly eh
imo religion is just a symptom maybe

Your message is hard to understand but if your trying to say there haven't been thousands of religious cults, movements, and shananigans that died natural deaths thruout history you'd be badly mistaken. You can go around the world today and find cults and religious movements that are going to die out from lack of followers. The whole point is we don't know who they where because they didn't go viral. If you can't get that please don't reply to this message because it's a simplistic concept and I don't want to keep rehashing it

0

awesome, prolly stealin it

fwiw this is encoded in the Bible, i shit you not, briefly believers are "Esau" gimme some of that red stew, or i will die! with their human sacrifice pov and you are "Jacob," and understand why the publicans and prostitutes are beating you (Esau) into the kingdom

"jesus of nazareth"="john doe, from nowhere"

0

I've always a fan of Dan Dennett of Tufts. Check out his lancet fluke video to confirm what you saying.

But even as an analogy it fails:
-every ant that falls pray to this virus becomes zombie but not every human exposed to a religious idea becomes zombie.
-the central notion is that a zombie ant loses all previous motivations and desires; this is not true of the proposed religion virus... people that are infected by it and not act the same 99% of the time and do not lose prior personality or motivation by adopting, or switching, religions.
-Most damning of course is the comparison of a physical theory with a non-physical one: virus's have DNA that they transmit, regardless of the hosts knowledge of said transmission or desire; religions do not have DNA and it's very much up to the host if they want to adopt said new religion, not up to the religion.

It's the loosest of analogies at best and one that breaks down in the simplest of analysis.

@TheMiddleWay Here’s where we differ. I think you’re missing the Dawkins’ concept of a memeplex, which is a conglomeration of memes (facts or ideas) which form a tangled mesh of RNA in the brain. It can grow and grow like a tumor. The most used analogy is that of an ideology which gradually grows bigger and bigger until the host eventually devotes his/er life to the propagation of the memeplex. These are called membots.

<<<a zombie ant loses all previous motivations and desires; this is not true of the proposed religion virus>>>

I disagree with this statement in that history is full such people. How about all the zealous monks that give up life for a tiny cell in a lonely monastery. There’s even a word for them: martyrs. How about Nazi solders that sacrificed everything for their “leader”? If the membot sacrifices life he’s called a memboid. A good example of memboids in modern times is Muslim suicide bombers.

Are you familiar with the H.L. Menkin’s essay on the multiplicity of gods? All he does is list the names of hundred of extinct gods of history – not only Zeus and Jupiter but all the crazy gods of tiny cultures like Zumba the Congolese sky god. These gods are not around now because they failed to add new membots. How about the Shakers of Pennsylvania?

The three current religions seem to know this, so they are constantly trying to add new membots.

@Aristippus
"memeplex, which is a conglomeration of memes (facts or ideas) which form a tangled mesh of RNA in the brain. "
But there is no scientific backing to the notion that conglomerations of fact or ideas are "tangled meshes of RNA in the brain" though...

" How about all the zealous monks that give up life for a tiny cell in a lonely monastery."
Outliers do not dictate the norm. If the analogy is to work it need apply to the norm, not just outliers.

@TheMiddleWay Tangled mesh has to do with the concept of rizhoid. It's a mesh of tiny roots that attaches to the brain. It's not proven but it's believed that information is stored in RNA, the earlest replicator.

Dawkins talks about a "memetic hook" which is the first invader into the cortex. When a Jehovah Witness knocks on you door and innocently asks, "Do you want to be saved?" he's trying to infect you with the memetic hook. If you say yes, you'll soon be invaded by co-memes which supports the same ideology. Before long you have a memeplex. Co-memes are "God loves you" or "He died for our sins."

There're dozens of websites on the Intrenet. Just search on "memetics"..

The theory was put down by religious people because they didn't like learning their most cherished beliefs are nothing more than a contagious parasite.

If you're interested in the topic I even wrote a book on it. Even has a memtic glossary. Got some good reviews and the promo was by Prof Phil Zimbardo of Stanford.

[amazon.com]

Rich

@Aristippus
"The theory was put down by religious people because they didn't like learning their most cherished beliefs are nothing more than a contagious parasite."
But more importantly it was put down by scientists because there was no science to the notion that any idea of conept works anything like a virus. Case in point, the RNA storage posited to be a physical connection between conceptual and physical meme, posited to store a memplex, even by your own admission is not proven.

@TheMiddleWay <<<any idea of conept works anything like a virus>>>. ?

Please get in the habit of proofreading what you write. I do the same thing. Your writing will improve if you do, I think>

I'm of course familiar with the criticism of Dawkins' work, that memetics in general lies outside the realm of the scientic method. In truth, nothing in science is 100% certain. That's why I consider myself "strong" atheist, leaving the door open just a tiny bit. As the great geneticist JBS Haldane once said --the universe is queerer (sic) than we imagine. It's even queerer than we are capable of imagining. He even had his own radio show. He was the Carl Sagan of his day.

Even Newton's Law of Gravity isn't always correct: inside the atom and inside a black hole. So to hold memetic theory to impractical standards is faulty reasoning. Many truths in life can't be proven.

@Aristippus
"Please get in the habit of proofreading what you write. I do the same thing. Your writing will improve if you do, I think>"
If you are proofreading, then you are not reading.
If you can understand what I say, there is no need to proofread.

" So to hold memetic theory to impractical standards is faulty reasoning. "
It's not impractical standards to say that something that doesn't work at all should be discarded.
Newton's Law works within it's context which is not inside atoms or black holes.
Memetics did not work within it's context which is why it is scientifically dismissed.

It's fine to adhere to pseudo-science for fun... reading astrology, performing reiki, thinking memetics. But these pseudo-science don't work scientifically and hence are fun games but devoid of any reality or practical use.

"Many truths in life can't be proven."
It's not a truth if it can't be proven.
To say that unproven gods are true, just can't be proven, isn't scientifically valid.
To say that unproven memes is true, just can't be proven, isn't scientifically valid either.
In fact, to say that unproven anything is true, but can't be proven, isn't scientifically valid.

1

There is too much entrenched stupidity in the human species for religion to be eradicated.

0

I think it was a great idea at the time. It brought the Jewish idea of man as made in the image of God and the Greek idea of the logos as the rational for life together in one package. It gave people a sense of independence from both mortal and immortal tyrants and a feeling that ultimately, they determined their own future. No need, I'm sure, to comment on how it all went bad.

3

1.) Christianity is Theism. Theism is much more than just Christianity. (Christianity holds 26% of the world's theists today.)
2.) By 2050 Islam will be the world's largest organized religion. Islam and the religious not affiliated with a particular brand of theism account for 40% of the world's theists.
3.) Buddhism, Hinduism, Toaism and other non-theistic religions account for 27% of world religions.

The point? The world isn't struck with Christianity. It isn't now, nor will it ever be, the choice of all the globe's theists (or the world's religious.) The world, however, is stuck with religion. At least for the next couple of generations, if not for ever.

@Imatheistically That's ridiculous.

@Imatheistically
You are living proof that atheism is no cure for prejudice, intolerance, and ignorance.

@Imatheistically
"if you think its ok to be "tolerant" of a virus loke Islam (and theirbelievers), then that makes you more atupid then they are!"

it's not its
??? not loke
their believers not theirbelievers
stupid not atupid
than not then

More stupid than they are is still smarter than your last sentence.

@Imatheistically Why don't you take a look at the thousands upon thousands of people who have survived Christianity. No terror attack needed. Just the horrific truths of Christianity. In case it's eluded you, Christianity and Islam are sister religions. Same fantasy, different book, same craziness.

I'm not even touching your blatant Islamaphobia. That's your cross to bear.

@Imatheistically
victim not victom
believers of Islam not Islam believers
originated not originating

Don't claim intellectual superiority over Muslims when clearly you don't have it. 😉

@Imatheistically Go back hundreds of years and ask surviving victims of the witch persecutions what they think about Christianity. Ask any surviving victims of the Inquisition how they feel about Christianity. Ask Islamic survivors of the Crusades how they feel about it. Then, ask the Native Americans who were decimated by Europeans how they feel about Christianity (not their present day descendants--many of them have embraced Christianity). The same for Africans who were sold into slavery, a practice condoned and practiced by Christians. You seem to be ignorant of history.

Good job @SeaGreenEyes correcting the amateur anthropologist attempting to inject viral videos and sickness into his history imagery.
..poor @SunnyK needs to study world religious patterns quite a bit more than a Davinci Code movie review or a stupid Joseph Campbell lecture

0

If it was a virus, it was the opposite of the Coronavirus.
The Flavian Romans very likely incubated it in a lab (invented it to replace radical Judaism), spread it via their 'mass media,' and worked diligently to eliminate competing religions, including their own, which was so closely identified with the old Caesarian regime.
It couldn't have possibly failed to take root and spread like wildfire throughout the Empire.

2

1.) Christianity is Theism. Theism is much more than just Christianity. (Christianity holds 26% of the world's theists today.)
2.) By 2050 Islam will be the world's largest organized religion. Islam and the religious not affiliated with a particular brand of theism account for 40% of the world's theists.
3.) Buddhism, Hinduism, Toaism and other non-theistic religions account for 27% of world religious.

The point? The world isn't stuck with Christianity. It isn't now, nor will it ever be, the choice of all the globe's theists (or the world's religious.) The world, however, is stuck with religion. At least for the next couple of generations, if not for ever.

Imagine John Lennon never shot dead and 41 years of his popular musical pacifism activism Atheism changing our world BACK TO THE FUTURE ! !

@SeaGreenEyes you are doing a better job than Yoko Ono responding to our violent xian USA culture

0

Did it go viral?. I don't think so. If it had not been made the state religion by the Romans it may have just remained another doomsday cult.

@Allamanda The modern meaning of something going viral means that it spreads quickly and widely. Christianity has spread widely but not quickly.

@Allamanda Maybe so but it is a poor analogy. At a stretch maybe you could say Christianity did go viral but it is now endemic as the Corona infection probably will be in years to come.

@Allamanda Simply reason, and sites like this.
What I was trying to say,poorly, was that Christianity did not spread as a virus does by instant contact from person to person.but In many cases by coercion and bribery. Islam was spread by armed conflict and then by bribery as Muslims were taxed less than Christians and Jews.

2

You could argue the same idea for many religions. It comes down to giving out promises of a better life ahead, just like snake oil salesmen and politicians have long done. All major religions have something else on their side for proliferation - they attracted and snagged leaders who forced those religions on people on the pain of death.

@Allamanda Science and education. Of course, one could argue that Henry VIII had all that and still found a use for religion for control.

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