Well said.

I think any organization that pushes a religion should be considered terroristic

And Saudi Arabia sits on the UN Human rights council.

I don't need the United Nations to tell me who is and is not a terrorist

@redhog Is it not that 'One man's terrorist is merely another man's Freedom Fighter?'
To my mind, the Palestinians are ONLY fighting to regain the land that WAS theirs long, long BEFORE Israel was created circa 1948-49, hence, they are the Fighters for Freedom and the Israelis are the Terrorists are they not.
It is EXACTLY the same analogy that applied/applies to the Partisans in WWII who fought against Nazis, the Native American Indians who fought against European Invaders,etc, etc.

@Triphid except theyre religious extremists

@redhog Ergo, by my interpretation of YOUR comment/reply, then Palestinians are predominantly Muslims THEREFORE ALL muslims must be Religious Terrorists.
Conversely, ALL Israelis are followers of Judaism THEREFORE they too MUST be Religious Terrorists as well.
See, you CANNOT make a claim such as yours and make it a One-side claim simply because every coin/phrase/claim ALWAYS has 2 sides.

@Triphid I can make such a claim, and have. If you don't agree with it thats your problem and yours alone buddy.

@Triphid "It is EXACTLY the same analogy that applied/applies to the Partisans in WWII who fought against Nazis" Why don't yo give us some examples of Partisans in WWII sending rockets into civilian areas to kill innocent people. When did a Partisan ever go into a cafe and blow themselves up to kill innocent people. If you can't do that then do not disrespect the memory of those Partisans by equating them with Terrorists like Hamas.

There is an awful lot of stuff on both sides that never make the news. Like Hamas tying bombs to helium balloons and letting them float over. The Israelis have made up a little rhyme for the children to teach them not to go near them.

@dermot235

United Kingdom policy:-
The Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades have been listed as a proscribed organization under the Terrorism Act since 2001, but Hamas as a whole is not listed.

Saudi Arabia policy:-
Saudi Arabia banned the Muslim Brotherhood in 2014 and branded it a terrorist organization. While Hamas is not specifically listed, a non-official Saudi source stated that the decision also encompasses its branches in other countries, including Hamas.

@Petter I DO NOT CARE WHAT the uk or the Saudi's say.
If you send rockets into civilian areas with the only purpose of these rockets being to terrify and attack civilians then you are a Terrorist. Why don't you get that. HAMAS defends these attacks all the time. And their members commit them.

One needs no organization to define what an organization is for them. Simple observation within historical context will be far more reliable. Without knowing history, it isn't possible to have a frame of reference that can differentiate between violent causation and violent reaction.

I'm a Kinetologist. The most dependable way to evaluate 'what is' is by observation and analysis of actions (movement/behavior). What happens independent of self-description, labeling or 'official' titling, defines what an individual or group 'is'.

Take for example Brown Shirts and Black Shirts of the 1930's that employed vandalism, street intimidation and mayhem to suppress opposition during the rise of Fascism in their respective nations. For a contemporary group the behave IDENTICALLY yet claim to be ANTI-Fascist, discloses them as counterfeits. Names in most 'movements' are purposely misleading for strategic purposes.

But for a hundred years of fanatic acquisition, seventy three of which have been ethnic cleansing, Hamas would not have come into existence as a counter to it. 'Terrorism' like anything else, is best defined within historical context rather that propaganda that obscures context.

@powder do whatever you want. To be honest I really don't care what you do. It has no influence on what I do or say.

Someone has slipped the United Nations a Mickey Finn.

@redhog Well said.

@redhog, @Triphid The land doesn't belong to the Israelis just because the Bible says so.

Hurray. Somebody gets it

So terrorism is justified to combat terrorism. How ridiculous is that. If you lived in a country where terrorism was conducted from both sides you would not be saying that. I have lived in ireland when we had terrorists on both side. NOTHING justifies either side committing acts of terror that kill civilians like that. NOTHING. If your Child was killed by a rocket, would you call it Paltry

I won't accept charities that are used to advance political or religious ideology and you don't have to have charities controlled by them. Doctors without borders and the Red Cross are good examples. I have no problem with theses charities. And I give to them because they are secular

@dermot235 You only lived in Ireland. I have lived through the Mau Mau and Idi Amin's Uganda. I even bear the physical scars of a precarious life. Charity has a fine distinction.

@Petter How do you know I only lived in Ireland??

@OwlInASack Well said. I agree with you

@dermot235 You said so above. I quote. " I have lived in ireland when we had terrorists on both side. "

@dermot235, @OwlInASack Hamas ARE horrific, but what would you do? Allow orphaned children to lie abandonned, starving and unclothed? I hope not. As I keep pointing out, there is a fine distinction.

@Petter You seem to think that Hamas have the support of all Palestinians. This is NOT true. They have very little support on the West Bank. And in Gaza they rule by fear and crushing dissent. They are the enemies of the Palestinian people and the sooner people stop making excuses for them the better for the Palestinians. If you really truly support the Palestinian people you would condemn Hamas.

@Petter "Allow orphaned children to lie abandoned, starving and unclothed?" If you think HAMAS are a solution to these problems you are deluding yourself. They are part of the problem.

@dermot235 So you suggest turning your back on the children, I can only assume.

@Petter So sending rockets in to a civilian area is supporting Children. I would suggest that NOT supporting HAMAS is supporting children

@owlinasack bear in mind that:-
one never stands so tall as when kneeling to help a child.

Well said.

@dermot235 Well said.

When they stop launching rockets on civilians I will stop calling them terrorists.

Trump was elected by the America people. Is that an excuse for his behaviour???

@dermot235 Really and what are you calling the Israeli government who terrorises the Palestinians?

@dermot235 Yes a big proportion of the American people deserve Trump. They are only interested in money and power too, no compassion for anyone else but themselves.

@Jolanta So if I criticise Hamas that means I am in favour of EVERYTHING Israel does. I CONDEMN all terrorism. from hamas, from Israel, from the US. From anywhere. It's terrorism. A spade will be called a spade

@Jolanta And Hamas is a good example of Compassion??

So that would confirm them being a terrorist organization. The duly elected government of a terrorist state.

@Jolanta "Yes a big proportion of the American people deserve Trump. They are only interested in money and power too, no compassion for anyone else but themselves."

Nobody deserves TRUMP
and NOBODY deserves Hamas

@dermot235 Well said.

@Jolanta Is there no two-state solution?

@Grecio The Israelis would never allow it.

@dermot235 You do realize that in the later months 1945 and into 1946 that hundreds, if not thousands of Jews emigrated from Europe to PALESTINE, YES, Palestine and simply set up homes there?
The Brits were sent in to STOP the Jews from driving the resident Palestinians from their homes and lands by force of arms and attacking the Palestinians UNTIL the 1948-49 Accord could be agreed to and ratified WITHOUT the Palestinians even being invited to comment on it.
That, my dear Sir, is a Historical FACT.

@Triphid You do realise that from the year 1610 and into 2020 that Millions, if not 10's of millions of europeans emigrated from Europe to Australia and the US, YES, Australia and the US and simply set up homes there?
Nobody was sent in to STOP the Europeans from driving the resident native American Indians and Aboriginal people from their homes and lands by force of arms and GENOCIDE

That, my dear Sir, is a Historical FACT.

@Jolanta Can I ask if you are in Favour of a 2 state solution?

@dermot235 I cannot see it anymore. I was hoping for it years ago.

@dermot235 Yes, I know all about that as well and your point IS?

@Triphid My Point is that 95% of all countries have a distasteful beginning. And one that usually involves the subjugation and oppression of another people. Countries by their very nature are an artificial construct. Every Country in Latin American and North America has a foundation that is similar to Israel. We are now 3 or 4 generations from the founding of the Israeli state. So it's now time for a 2 state solution.
I guess my point is people in Glass houses shouldn't trow stones.

@Jolanta |All it takes is for the extremes on both sides to stop getting support. So if you are a supporter of the Israeli hardliners or a supporter of Hamas then you are part of the reason a 2 state solution is getting further away

@dermot235 An do you think it is ever going to happen, like the US sopping giving billions to Israel?

@Jolanta When both sides support the moderates it WILL happen. So do your part and Condemn HAMAS

@dermot235 Aw shit m8, hop down off your cross for a change, someone else might need the firewod.

@Triphid Decide to stop debating the facts and try and belittle those you disagreed with. TRUMP would be proud of you

@dermot235 AW are you trying to denigrate me?
Try a whole lot harder next, I've been denigrated, at least TRIED to be denigrated that is, by bigger and better than you and they too have lost the battle.

@Triphid Whatever

Sending rockets over a border in to another country that kill civilians and are specifically targeting civilians is terrorism. That's how you decide. And doing this in the name of Allah. Your reference to them as possible patriots is sickening. I live in Ireland and I know what terrorism looks like. Hamas is a terrorist organisation.

The US and Israeli militaries commit more acts of terrorism around the planet than any other organization.

@BDair And that justifies Hamas committing acts of Terror. Is that your way of justifying there inhumanity. They are not as bad as other "Terrorists"??

They commit acts of terrorism. It's decidedly so.

@dermot235 Maybe they view it as trying to liberate the country from the colonialists, who are supported by the US. The Ubiggest source of terror in the region. The US and the government of Israel are easily, by far responsible for most of the atrocities in the region.

And to be clear, to the extent that HAMAS does commit acts of terror, then yes, that is wrong. I hope you aren't so naive and uninformed that you think it is one-way.

@Mitch07102 I have a big problem with how Israel treats the Palestinians. But I will not condone Terrorism no matter where it comes from

@dermot235 To what degree is/was the IRA a terrorist organization? Or patriots trying to reunite their country in the face of overwhelming force? Villains, or heroes?

@Mitch07102 The IRA were terrorist. Totally. They killed civilians without remorse. The put bombs in Shopping centres and Bars and they executed people because they worked for the British government. That included Janitors that cleaned police stations. Post office workers because they worked for the British post officeThey were executed because they were Catholic and were janitors in a police station. The IRA are hated by most people in Ireland. I mean 98% of Irish people did not support their campaign of terror. It was a peace process that solved our problems in the end and it came at a time when the IRA were being defeated by both the British government an the Irish government.

@Mitch07102 This is what terrorism did to Ireland. It was only after the terrorism stopped that Ireland finally had economic prosperity and became a progressive nation. All Terrorism did was prevent progress and impoverish our nation

@dermot235 Nothing from the Black and Tan's? The famine? The British government? The partitioning of the country?

Hello?

@Mitch07102 When you lived through the terror campaigns (You must not have looked at all the Video, there were Protestant terror attacks in that Video Too). You come to realise that 2 wrongs do not make a right.

As for the Black and Tan's? The famine? The British government? The partitioning of the country. That was 100 to 200 years ago. So if that justifies a war of terror then I guess you would be ok with Native American Indians Bombing civilians in the US NOW. We can talk Irish history if you want. I have no problem with that. But the settlers from the UK came to Ireland around the same time as the settlers went to america. WE can all go back in history and will always find something that can be used to justify barbaric acts now. It's not a strong argument.

@dermot235 I disagree.

@Mitch07102 That's not a strong argument either

@dermot235

You wrote But I will not condone Terrorism no matter where it comes from.
You can afford to be as naive as anyone who is determined to remain a victim.

Were you in government and required to have an adult’s perspective, you would see terrorism as a means of communication. A violent means, but communication:

1. to an oppressive nation’s rulers,
2. to the oppressive nation’s people who live in the oppressed nation,
3. to the oppressed nation’s people who cooperate with the oppressive nation, and
4. to the oppressed nation’s people who want their freedom.

Now, set your emotions aside before you react.

@yvilletom When you live in a country that was economically destroyed by terrorist for over 30 years you can tell me I am Naive. It was the defeat of Terrorism that resulted in progress in Ireland. It is so Naive to believe that Terrorism is about reacting to oppression. More often than not a terrorist campaign is for changes that they cannot get the support from the people for. In Ireland the terrorists NEVER had the support of the majority of the people and never even has a large minority supporting them. They were the oppressors, not government. The same can be said of the Red Brigade in Italy or the Basque terrorists in Spain.
The Communication that Terrorists give out is. We do not care if we can not get the support of the electorate. We will terrorise you until we get what we want. The will of the people is not important to us. We have no respect for the people. When HAMAS send rockets in to Israel, it does this to Provoke a response that wins them popularity in GAZA. They want the Israelis to respond. HAMAS is an oppressor of it's own people. And as for them being elected. Dissent is not tolerated in GAZA. They are no more a democracy than Putin's Russia is. Now who is being Naive.

@dermot235

You buried some of those four items in your statement but you’re unable to see them.

@yvilletom I did not bury them

1. to an oppressive nation’s rulers,
   If you want to communicate to an oppressed nations rulers you don't kill civilians outside a shopping centre

2. to the oppressive nation’s people who live in the oppressed nation,
   So if Black people started to put bombs in to Rich white neighbourhoods that would be something an "Adult" should listen to. Was it Martin Luther King or the Black Panthers that got White people to listen to them?

3. to the oppressed nation’s people who cooperate with the oppressive nation, and
   to the oppressed nation’s people who want their freedom.
   Most terrorism want's a minority to rule OVER a majority. Even when this means the Majority will become the Oppressed. This was the case with the IRA and the Taliban and Al Qaeda.

The Terrorists are the Oppressors. Even when they try to represent an oppressed people they fail to see that what they want is oppression too. And sometimes oppression that is worse than the oppressors they are fighting against. And in the Case of the IRA they were fighting for a people who did not want them to fight for them

@dermot235 You need to learn more about the actual operations and role of the great majority of the Black Panther's activities. You are repeating a false narrative. I posted about it a few weeks ago, watch the video as a starting point.

@Mitch07102 "The Great Majority". It was the minority that did the damage. Just as Terrorist represent minorities again and again. Terrorists represent Minorities within the communities they claim to be fighting for. That was my point

@dermot235

Dermot, you have it wrong still.
In Item 1 you change “oppressive nation’s rulers” to “oppressor nation’s rulers”.
In Item 2 you assume the STARTING condition when it is a CONTINUING condition.
In Item 3 you say the people who cooperate are the people who want their freedom.

YOU ARE SO DRIVEN BY YOUR HURT THAT YOU CANNOT READ ACCURATELY.

There’s more.

Your saying “The Terrorists are the Oppressors” does not make them so.

Of course the terrorists are a minority. Oppressor nations always silence most of the oppressed nation’s people.

YOU ARE SO DRIVEN BY YOUR HURT THAT YOU CANNOT REASON ACCURATELY.

@yvilletom OK I'm done with you telling me I'm hurt. I don't need an oracle. Bye

Good Question.

I have to disagree with that totally. Political Parties distribute tax revenues to ALL citizens. Hamas gives charity out to win favour for it's ideology just like Christian churches do.

Try getting any charity from Hamas after you tell them you are christian or Atheist. You won't get very far

@dermot235 Have you not heard that most of the millions that were earmarked for business went to big business and rich owners in the US. And here is Australia our Liberal and National party have given donations before the election to their own constituents, not to everyone fairly. So now they do not distribute tax revenues to all citizens, just to their own.

@Jolanta So Muslin and Christian Charity is the same as government. You elect your government in Australia. Who elected the Pope?? And Hamas was elected, but they run their charities outside of government control so they can discriminate. Do you really think that the people of Gaza are being served well by Hamas?

@dermot235 I somehow do not think that the Palestinians would vote for Hamas if they were not happy with them. I don't know if they are being served well by Hamas, what does that entail? What I would consider being served well someone els may not. I did not vote for the government in Australia and don't you know how popes are elected?

@Jolanta Popes are elected by cardinals not ordinary church members. Try running against Hamas in a GAZA election and you will see how undemocratic they are. Putins Russia is about as fair as Hamas. And Putin is elected too.

@Jolanta Each new Pope is ELECTED by a Conclave of Cardinals which involves a great deal of fiscal wheeling and dealing from all sides seeking to insert their choice and thus gain power for themselves and THEIR interests.
That IS 100% Fact btw.

@dermot235 I am sure Hamas wants to be elected just like anyone else running. I am sure that there are decent members in Hamas just like I am equally sure that there are others who are not. Tell me what exactly do you think the Palestinians should do? Lie down and die?

@Jolanta You now sound like Trump. "There are good people" and you say "there are decent members"
the Palestinians in the West Bank do not send rockets over into Israel. Are those Palestinians wrong. It now sounds like you are saying that Hamas and there terror campaign is the only solution. They have a terror campaign against there own people. One that punishes decent within. There are not democratic. Hamas are the enemy of the Palestinian people too.

Bravo. Well Said..