I did. CA still went for Biden. Biden did worse than Hillary in many demographics (he tanked with latinx). But Team Biden had no coattails either, something I brought up regularly.

"Not Trump!" with little else but the same vote shaming from 2016 was just not effective. Seems Joe-OP-Lite largely fizzled. Rethugs still go for GOP Classic.

Even tho the corporate media would have all been against him, I still say that if Bernie had been the nominee, this would have been a landslide. But the DNC would rather lose with a corrupt corporate centrist than win with a progressive. Their strategy of doing this the last two times is not working, but they don't care, so they won't change their policy on this.

@TomMcGiverin

I like Bernie, I voted for him.

I was a bit worried about him being the nominee though because everyone said a socialist can't get elected so we must go with an electable choice.

Now, it looks like the electable choice wasn't very electable after all and maybe we would be better off with Bernie,as you said. At least he offers people something. Biden was just all about going back to normal. It was all about using the hate of Trump to motivate people rather than getting them out by offering reform and change.

@Zoltans_Queen Most people who would vote for a Dem don't want a return to normal, as in a repeat of Obama. They want an improvement on Obama instead of the lies about hope and change Obama offered. If Bernie was the nominee, not only would there be more excitement and enthusiasm, but there would also be tens of millions of poor and working class white people who currently DON'T vote (but are eligible voters) but WOULD vote for Bernie because he would offer them something other than not being Trump and a return to the lack of change under Obama.

But the DNC doesn't care about that or winning the White House. All they care about is maintaining neoliberal economic policies and endless wars for empire and oil. We need a new party that actually represents the 99%. The Movement For A People's Party appears to be our best chance.

@TomMcGiverin

That makes sense. Working class people are disappointed in the democrats. I heard there were large numbers of people who voted Obama twice and then switched to Trump. This is crazy to me, but I guess because biden and Hillary aren't offering them much of anything while Trump is talking about bringing jobs back and cutting regulations and adjusting trade deals, it appeals to them. I'm sure if med4all were offered,it would have brought out a lot of people. There is massive support for it. Apparently, even most republicans want a single payer system.

I just can't understand why the democrats refuse to support these popular policies that would motivate people to vote. The non-voters, like you said, need something to incentivize them to get their butts to the poles.

@Zoltans_Queen You make two excellent points. One, is that working class people will vote for whoever says they will offer them something better than the status quo, even if (as in Trump's case) the offer is a lie. Biden and Hillary offered no improvement on the status quo, so most working class people decide to take their chances with Trump and vote for him. The other thing is that neither party even talks about poor people anymore or offers them anything to vote for economically, so the poor just sit out the election every time for the last couple decades. And why shouldn't they? I'd bet my life that the poor make up the vast majority of eligible non-voters.

But the Dem leaders don't want to offer those poor non-voters anything because it would anger their big donors, the rich and corporations. Hell, they don't even give a damn about the unions anymore because the unions donate peanuts compared to the corporate and fat cat donors for the Dems. The Dems could win in a landslide with someone like Bernie as the nominee with all the poor non-voters that would turn out for him. But the Dems don't care about winning, just about keeping their corporate and rich fuck donors. So they continue the strategy of losing and hoping to win a razor thin victory by threading the needle each time with only votes from the middle class, a group that is becoming smaller and closer to extinction each year.

The Dems get too much money from health care industry groups, so they don't want to offer M4all or single payer. They lucked out with Obama as a candidate because he was so charismatic and smart that people voted for him out of fatigue with W. and because he was also one of the smoothest liars in a generation. Hillary and Biden don't even come close to him on charisma and lying ability, so they lose.

@Zoltans_Queen The whole "a socialist can't win" is just self-fulfilling propaganda from the DNC and the corporate media because they are secretly terrified of one winning. And unfortunately, most Americans are sheeple that fall for it. How would anyone really know? We haven't had a progressive Dem nominated for prez since 1972 with McGovern, and a lot has happened since then. Voters, esp, younger people, don't really care that much about labels like socialist or moderate. They care more about the candidate's policies. And opinion surveys consistently show that voters support the kind of socialist or progressive policies that Bernie promoted. So the "Can't win" argument is phony and dishonest.

The whole " electability" argument is used every time against progressives by the DNC and corporate media to kneecap progressive candidates. But the funny thing is that some of them continue to win anyway, so it proves that the argument is phony when they say they can't ever win.

@TomMcGiverin

I wish there was a party that could get all those working class people who don't vote to support it. All the non-voters plus the democrats who are fed up would turn out for somebody like sanders.

@RoboGraham That has long been my dream as well. But the older I get, the less likely it seems that it will ever happen before I die. I've seen so many attempts at it during my life, but they have always failed. When you combine people's feelings of demoralization combined with the mass media constantly working against it, it's not surprising that the movements fail. Occupy was one of the last and best ones that failed.

@TomMcGiverin

It's so tragic. But it's got to succeed someday.

I know you're being sarcastic here, but I, for one, sure saw it coming. In fact, I bet this would happen and will win a steak dinner out of it.

Stupid was thinking Biden was the "safe" choice.

It also means that there are a lot of people who didn't vote because there wasn't a candidate in the race who they could trust to represent their interests.

@RoboGraham it also means those who didn't vote have no right to bitch and moan about the results, including third party and write in voters... Wah.. Mickey Mouse didn't win ! wah wah...

@Cutiebeauty

If the candidate fails to earn the votes, that's on him.

@RoboGraham no, its on you.. You didn't vote, remember?

@Cutiebeauty

Oh yes I did, I voted so hard.

And even if I didn't, the fault still falls on the candidate who failed to convince enough people to vote for him. This should have been an easy win.

@RoboGraham spoken like a true Russian i did.. Even if i didn't... What a load of crap! You voted (not voted) for Mickey Mouse!

@Cutiebeauty

According to the board of elections...

@Cutiebeauty

He's a Russian!?

@RoboGraham that is meaningless .. You bet on the #3 horse in a two horse race... Guess who lost their bet? You...

@Cutiebeauty

I didn't bet on anything.

I analyzed the candidates and chose the best one. Which is what we are supposed to do when voting.

@Zoltans_Queen he might as well be.. I've no proof...

@RoboGraham you analyzed nothing... You are a non voter.. Wake up.. Your choice is meaningless ... You weren't in the game.. Now you have no right to bellyache about any candidate... Except for Mickey Mouse...

@Cutiebeauty

Okay, but the thing is, yes I do. Just because I didn't vote for the either of the old rich corporate candidates doesn't mean I can't call them out on their faults.

Now's the time to point out the flawed logic of nominating Biden. The only reason people went for him was because they thought he was a safe option, he was "electable". Well, now we see, that's not really true. He might still squeak by but clearly his electability was way over-estimated.

@RoboGraham sure, you can point out their faults but you decided not to choose..

@Cutiebeauty

I chose to oppose the two party system. Which is much more important than choosing red or blue.

@RoboGraham then you choose to live outside of reality which doesn't surprise me one bit..

@Cutiebeauty

So you are accusing him without proof?

How can he be Russian if he voted in Maryland?

@Zoltans_Queen yes, i accuse him without proof but we have a long history of disagreeing ... Its not an actual accusation though..

@RoboGraham

I am very irritated with 3rd party voters right now. I voted for Biden, not because I like him, but because Trump is just too dangerous, we must remove him.

I can understand why you would be hesitant to vote Biden, a third party vote is useless. Still I'm not going to shame you. it's your decision. And being in MD, you have the luxury to vote your conscience without risking your state going red.

Do you really think you can oppose the two parties?

@Cutiebeauty

Oh, so is it like a playful thing between the two of you?

He does seem like the type of guy to be very disagreeable.

@Zoltans_Queen i wouldn't exactly said playful as you you said, hes very disagreeable and thinks his way is the only way.. Hes very bias... And a dreamer imo. A do nothing...

@Zoltans_Queen

Definitely not playful.

She doesn't like what I have to say but she can't refute my points with substance so she tries to dismiss me and what I stand for by calling me names.

@RoboGraham really? you remember repeating yourself and saying leche to me when i didn't accept your repetitions? Your're so fumny or so obtuse...

@Cutiebeauty

You're still hung up on leche?

I thought we agreed that profanity is okay?

@Zoltans_Queen

Thanks for not being a vote shamer.

I totally respect your vote for Biden and I do hope he wins because he is the lesser evil. I couldn't vote for him though.

I don't think the two party system can actually be defeated. The logic is, by withholding my vote from the democrats, it forces them to adopt better policies and nominate better candidates to win my vote back. So I'm hoping to push them in a better direction by refusing to vote for their chosen, terrible, corrupt candidate. They will ignore us 3rd party voters of course, especially if Biden wins. But it's still better than loyally handing over my vote to them after they cheated my preferred candidate and propped the literal worst candidate in the race.

I'm sick of the democratic party chasing the republicans to the right. If we want to shift the overton window back to the left, we must resist them. If enough people would vote 3rd party, they wouldn't be able to ignore us. The democrats have become republican lite, and I cannot support right wingers.

@RoboGraham
"She doesn't like what I have to say but she can't refute my points with substance so she tries to dismiss me and what I stand for by calling me names."

Not hung up at all. Just stating that you started the name calling when we used to have respectful conversations.. And you want to make me resposilble for what you started. Typical high school shit..

@Cutiebeauty

I didn't call you leche, I've never engaged in this immature name calling thing like you do. Leche is an expletive to express frustration. It's like saying "Fuck This"

@RoboGraham

That actually makes a lot of sense to me. I kinda wish I had voted third party now because, like you, my vote doesn't really matter. Something must be done, I didn't like Hillary but I voted for her anyway and she lost, I didn't like Biden but I voted for him anyway, and it looks like he will lose, or if he wins, it's way too close for comfort. Both times Bernie was so popular and he inspired so much enthusiasm. We need candidates like him to actually win primaries.

I hate when people do name calling instead of debating in good faith. It's so Trumpian. What is this leche?

@RoboGraham
Letse, alternatively "Leche", is used as an expression of annoyance or anger. ... Letse or leche (Spanish for "milk" ) is derived from the Spanish profanity "Me cago en la leche," which literally translates to "I defecate in the milk" where leche is a euphemism for ley ("law" ), referring to the Law of Moses.

Maybe you don't understand english but i do.. If you said you want to shit in my milk , then i'll shit all over you.. You opened that door, not me.. Its up to you to close it. Your mommy can't help you this time...

@Zoltans_Queen

Glad to hear it. We will never get a good candidate who stands for positive policies if we surrender our votes by blindly voting blue no matter who they choose for us. that gives up all the leverage we have and we need to make it clear to them that we will no longer settle for corrupt conservatives like Biden.

So, once upon a time, she and I were arguing about something. I got frustrated with her closed mindedness and hypocrisy so I said one word, leche, which is spanish for milk. Now she brings it up every time I talk to her, as if it was a tremendous insult. Meanwhile, she has called me all sorts of names, but it's easily ignored.

@RoboGraham

I agree but also, the way our system works, it seems kinda crazy not to support the democrat because the republican will inevitably be so much worse. I think it makes sense for people who are in safe states to support 3rd party candidates and try to use leverage as you were saying, but People in michigan, pennsylvania, and florida need to vote blue.

Hmmm, saying leche doesn't seem like a big deal to me, especially if the other person uses cuss words too. And I kinda see what you mean just by looking at this interaction. You've made some good points, I don't fully agree, but what you say is logical. But she hasn't said much of anything other than to express that your opinion doesn't matter because you voted differently. And she says you are Russian which seems to be a very fake accusation.

Don't let it get you down. Your opinion is valid and your contribution is appreciated.

@RoboGraham
"So, once upon a time, she and I were arguing about something. I got frustrated with her closed mindedness and hypocrisy so I said one word, leche, which is spanish for milk. Now she brings it up every time I talk to her, as if it was a tremendous insult. Meanwhile, she has called me all sorts of names, but it's easily ignored."

Keep on trying to rewrite history.. You know leche doesn't mean just milk.. Why would you say milk when frustrated and angry?why not just say pudding or cake?

@Cutiebeauty

Because leche is an expletive. As I said before, it's similar to saying fuck this. It was the correct word to express how I felt at the time.

@Zoltans_Queen i'm sorry but did you see me use any cuss words here? Did you not see the definition of leche i posted here?

@Cutiebeauty I don't see either of you using cuss words other than to talk about what was said previously.

He said "I thought we agreed that profanity is okay? " which I take to mean that both of you are fine with cuss words.

I guess I just don't see how that word is so bad. It seems worse to me that you call him Russian and say his opinion doesn't matter.

I don't know what happened before, so maybe I'm missing something....?

@Zoltans_Queen
"He said "I thought we agreed that profanity is okay? " which I take to mean that both of you are fine with cuss words."

So one person says something and its true for both? No...

"I guess I just don't see how that word is so bad. It seems worse to me that you call him Russian and say his opinion doesn't matter."

You don't think its bad for someone to shit in your milk?

@Cutiebeauty @Zoltans_Queen

She is fine with foul language. We have been through this. She only gets offended about leche. Who wants to bet on Trump trying to physically charge across the stage at Biden during the debate?

@Cutiebeauty Well, now that I've seen you say it yourself, that you don't mind bad language, yeah, it is true for both.

Did he actually shit on your milk, or just say a word you dislike?

@Zoltans_Queen

It's all she has to go on so she'll latch onto this leche thing from now until the end of time.

@Zoltans_Queen of course im fine with foul language.. Who said i wasn't? Its robo graham whos complaining. Cant you read?

@Cutiebeauty

I'm confused. So when you said "So one person says something and its true for both? No... " in response to what I said- "He said "I thought we agreed that profanity is okay? " which I take to mean that both of you are fine with cuss words." -Did you not mean to imply that you aren't okay with cuss words?

And by the way, you said bitch in this conversation. So yes, I do see you using cuss words here.

You're saying now that you don't have a problem with it but before you said that it's not true for both. And if you really don't have an issue with bad language, why make such a fuss over leche?

I haven't really seen him complain. It looked to me like he was pointing out the fact that you get mad about a cuss word that he said but then you cuss too. He seems to be communicating calmly and logically while you are getting angry and attempting to make fun of him and label him Russian when he clearly is not.

And now you call into question my ability to read??? I teach English. Just because I don't come to the conclusion you agree with after reading your words and his doesn't mean I can't read.

Honestly, I really didn't expect to end up taking his side, but he has been reasonable while you have been mean.

From what I've seen, I think he was probably right when he said- "She doesn't like what I have to say but she can't refute my points with substance so she tries to dismiss me and what I stand for by calling me names."

@Zoltans_Queen

Well said. Thanks for being considerate.

@Zoltans_Queen bitch? Really? I said bitch in this thread?

@Cutiebeauty

You did. All the way at the top. Your first comment on this.

@Zoltans_Queen holy crap. You really don't understand english !

@Cutiebeauty

What a weird thing to say to an English teacher.

@Cutiebeauty

it also means those who didn't vote have no right to bitch and moan about the results

Were you not able to find it yourself?

@RoboGraham what's really weird is your total acceptance of someone's declaration of expertise of a particular subject.. When i said "bitch and moan", it was very clear that "bitch" meant complain.. An english teacher would know that...

@Cutiebeauty

I'm sure she knows what it means.

It's also very clear that bitch is one of the major cuss words. You tried to act like you didn't do any cussing in this conversation and yet, there it is. And now, you are defensive because she proved you wrong.

It's also very clear that, as I've said many times, you are a hypocrite.

@RoboGraham confirmation bias much?

@RoboGraham Is she behaving this way just to piss you off, or is she actually this obtuse?

It's unbelievable.

@Zoltans_Queen

She's always this way. I guess this is just how her personality is.

There are a few people like her on this site but don't let it give you the wrong impression. There are some really good people here.

@Zoltans_Queen actually, what's unbelievable is that your mom gave birth to you...oops, was that a cuss word , fake english teacher?

..

"Not Trump!" coupled with little more than pandering platitudes and pablum wasn't the slam dunk the DNC thought it would be.

Unfortunately, most Americans are either brainless idiots or sheeple.