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US politics - The most compelling argument (in my opinion) for conviction is one I haven't heard, so I'll make it here:

Do you as a Senator care a lot when someone tries to steal an election? When they try to commit vote fraud? When they try to strong-arm and intimidate civil servants and elected officials? Have you favored looking into President Trump's claims of vote fraud? Are you concerned to "stop the steal"? Then why aren't you EQUALLY AS CONCERNED with the vastly more credible evidence that Mr. Trump tried to steal this election, ... tried to overturn the clear will of the people... in part through his tactics leading up to and on January 6?

Seriously.... we have all listened to so many calls for "looking into" Mr. Trump's claims that the vote was being stolen. Yet, when it comes into "looking into" claims that it was Mr. Trump himself that was seeking to steal the election, we have crickets from those who were just moments ago making those allegedly principled patriotic heartfelt calls.

kmaz 7 Feb 11

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We've heard weeks and months of blah-blah from Cruze et al. as to their supposed concern for "vote fraud". Ok. Do they claim their concern is patriotic? Do they really care about counting all fairly cast votes? Do they really care that all citizens with a right to vote should have that right protected?

Obviously some of them do not really care and never did, but THE POINT IS to use their claim and take it at face value and go with it and say: Ok, let's look into vote fraud, shall we? Let's look into the attacks on our voting system. And guess what, as soon as we look into it: HOLY CRAP someone actually IS trying to STEAL THE ELECTION.

In any event, a pet issue for me for years and decades has been the fairness and sanctity of the voting system. This is inherently a non-partisan issue. The posturing over the last few months by Mr. Trump and others as to their alleged concern with that system is particularly offensive because they are the ones attacking that system.

However, their disgusting posturing also begs the question of how best to address it. Sometimes when folks engage in the "the big lie", we forget that a tactic in countering that lie can be to take them at their word as to their claimed concern. This is what I am urging that we remember. So, do they want to play at being patriotically concerned with the holy US voting system? Sure, indeed, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE VOTING SYSTEM and GUARD AGAINST ATTACKS UPON IT. If we take that tack, it will lead us straight back to Mr. Trump and Mr. Kovach and others who have systematically sought to undermine it, through years of nefarious plotting, and on through their venal January 6 attack which could not have taken place without the singular argument that they were supposedly concerned with the fairness of the vote.

kmaz Level 7 Feb 12, 2021

Like I said, they are lying, pure and simple. Trump even admitted that if access to voting was expanded not Republican would ever win another election. They know cheating is the only way for people who support generally unpopular opinions to win, so that's what they do.


Yes, I know you said this. I know they're lying. The reason I didn't respond is that it is not at all to my point.


@kmaz But it is, though. Like the last line of your comment, "they were supposedly concerned with the fairness". Supposedly is not actually. Because they were feigning concern, trying to use that concern won't actually work. It's like trying to use the urine of someone who was lying about being clean to pass your own drug test, it ain't gonna help...


The Repubs's argument against conviction, the same as last time, is that the incitement of the riot was not an impeachable offense. If so, then what the hell is an impeachable offense? Seems to me that many of the Repub Senators were still around in the 90s when the same Repubs voted to convict Bill Clinton for mere sexual perjury, lying about a blow job he got from his intern. As I recall no one died over that, unlike the seven dead so far from the riot. These people have no shame...


A good point. I have another one; precedence. Dear old Lindsay warned that this trial would set a precedence - lots of impeachments to follow. This whole trial is about precedence. We don't want a repeat of Trump or other Trumps..No more Trumps, please, please, please, p l e a s e !


The problem is that nobody is equally concerned. Just as Trump himself cannot produce proof that the election was stolen from him, those who back Trump and claim Biden stole the election also lack any proof of their claims. The nature of the claim itself started with Cult 45. No one sees the forest for the trees here.


The problem with this argument is that it assumes members of the GOP care about anything other than gaining and maintaining power. You are asking, "Do you as a Senator care a lot when someone tries to steal an election?" and the answer is simply, no, they don't. So I'm actuality, they do care just as much about Trump trying to steal the election.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

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