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You can be just about anything you feel you are these days. There are more pronouns and genders than I could even get an accurate count of. Really. Try searching for it and you'll find some incredibly long lists. You would have to make a spreadsheet and cross-reference a bunch of lists and you'd still probably be missing some. And if you wait a week, your list may be outdated. And if that is what you need to feel right or comfortable, I support you. But it seems there's a way you can feel that is still simply unacceptable, despite it being completely out of your control: the desire to die. There are things that can distract me from the otherwise constant thoughts of how much I no longer want to live, but essentially there's nothing I'd rather do than die unexpectedly, instantly, and as soon as possible. And I don't think that's that crazy of a desire. Life is an accident. It's also completely purposeless. If you're enjoying yours more than you're hating it, by all means, carry on, congratulations on all your success. But if you hate it like I do, why would it be so weird to want it to end? Why does a recognition of these simple facts constitute some emergency or need for intervention? Why does it have to be inextricably tied to depression? Why is that desire something only the mentally ill are "allowed" to possess?

I have one friend left that feels the same way I do. I said to him, "So apparently most people in our category feel the opposite way than us (according to Google), they are suicidal but don't actually want to die. What are people like us called, who want to die, but don't want to have to kill ourselves to get there? I tried searching for it, but I don't know that a term exists."

His response:
"Rational? 😜
Just from a quick search I happened upon a word that I use very often when I talk about this concept in many different contexts. Transcendence. When you transcend your biology you're able to escape the illusions that your consciousness compels you to believe are true and see things for what they really are. That's why I called it rational I guess. If you're able to transcend biology you can see death is objectively superior."

And he has a good point. Many humans have experienced some forms of transcendence. The use of contraception is a good example. Our genes favor procreation, but we manage to override them and actively prevent pregnancy [or eliminate it when it happens accidentally]. How much different is it really to want to abort our own life because of the perceived negative outcomes of continuing it??

So what do you think? Will our society ever be progressive enough to tolerate people like me? Or will I be destined to forever have yet another reason to hate being alive?

ChestRockfield 8 Apr 24
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4 comments

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2

I think the word you're looking for is bored. You are bored with life. It presents no challenge no opportunity nothing novel new or exciting to you. Hence you just as soon this life ends but on the off chance that something exciting could happen, you don't want to be the one doing it

As for suicide being rational, I think that's true on a case-by-case basis. If you have a terminal disease and you are in terrible pain such that your quality of life is not existent, then it is rational to commit suicide since you don't really have a life to begin with. If on the other hand you're perfectly healthy and merely stuck in ennuii rut, then suicide is not very rational since you have a semblance of a quality of life and every possibility of improving upon it

As for society being progressive enough, we are well on our way. 11 states in the US allow for legal assistance suicide.

everyone has an absolute right to end their life for anyting, for whatever reasons they find sufficient. nobody outside their shoes should presume to opine for them. we all should oniformally support this most fundimental of all rights

@holdenc98
Agreed: my body, my choice.

1

I don't want to die unexpectedly as soon as possible but when it does happen I don't want it to hurt. My uncle died at the breakfast table when his blood vessel broke and all his blood emptied out inside of him. He looked funny for a minute and then dropped dead quickly. They claim he didn't feel anything. To me that sort of sounds like the oil being lost from your car engine. I do not see the "instant death" without pain that they are talking about here.

Is it fair to say that if you attempt suicide they should kill you?

Absolutely. If I'm ever able to attempt, and I somehow fail (which would be extremely unlikely) I would want whoever found me to put a pillow over my face and finish the job.

0

You always could be whatever you feel, and those that don't fit the societal box, who are not what you would normally expect in a population, are not catered for. Nothing new but with 24hr instant media satisfaction it is recognised. But understand this is your society eg if you go to Thailand, they don't care what you identify as, as a people that is (admittedly, some laws still discriminatory).
Accept who you are and revel in your individuality is my advice. You only live once and who wants to be "normal" anyway? Love yourself first thus love your life and how others react becomes less important.

Unfortunately, it's up to you to tolerate others rather than expect others to tolerate you. That's the way human societies work, life is not fair etc. I'm being very direct and blunt here, but only extending my 2 cents worth as I would like to receive it, blunt and direct.
Take care and you sound as if you have good friends so enjoy them and don't worry about the rest.

PS Whitney Houston sucks but this song does explain what I'm trying to say

puff Level 7 Apr 24, 2022

We don't say to trans individuals, however, they they need to tolerate others instead of others tolerating them. We slap them on the covers of magazines and write laws that make them feel more comfortable. We change forms and websites to include more genders for people to pick from. We bend over backward to be inclusive.

@ChestRockfield As human modern Western history goes, a very recent phenomenon is acceptance of differing gender equality beside the biological 2. Culture's are alive, they ebb and flow and change over time. I think we are progressing to a more inclusive society, but a ways to go yet.

@ChestRockfield

Asking a minority that has been historically disrespected by a majority to turn around and respect that majority is a hard thing to ask.

Much like asking a majority that is currently disrespecting a minority to stop that disrespect is a hard thing to ask.

That is why instead of asking, there is legislation advertising marketing education aimed at stopping the majority from disrespecting the minority.

And only at such time as the majority stops disrespecting the minority can the majority expects to receive respect back from the minority.

@TheMiddleWay I don't think it's about respect at all, it's about tolerating difference. It's about accepting others may differ from you which does not make them lesser than you. No need for respect eg I tolerate theists but no way in hell (pun intended) do I respect them.
I fully 100% support that people should be free to believe what they want be it god bothering or declining medicine or sexual identification. Their life, their choice. If they wish to force others to believe as they do, we will have a problem, especially if they target the vulnerable (mentally) which most definitely includes children aka immature/ developing minds.
If you display tolerance towards others/ difference, you will earn my respect.

@puff
I can think of no greater sign of respect than tolerating differences in others.

@TheMiddleWay Agree, but that does not mean you have to respect the actual differences, only an individuals right to be who they are.

@puff
I don't know how you can disrespect the difference while still respecting the individual.

For example, if you don't agree with homosexuality, I don't see how you can disrespect the homosexual lifestyle without simultaneously disrespecting an individual who follows that lifestyle.

@TheMiddleWay Yes, but those campaigns either take, or they don't. The campaigning itself (or even a law) isn't the acceptance by society. I mean, you can't even Google search for stuff about dying/suicide without the first responses being crisis intervention. This does not seem like a thing that's going to be accepted anytime soon. Even the people that are on board almost exclusively rely on the caveat that the individual needs to be terminal.

@TheMiddleWay I don't agree with difference I accept it. I accept that people are individual both in body and mind and I like that variety within people.
Accepting does not necessarily mean liking or condoning. I'm more inclined to think some views/ lifestyles are just weird rather that judging good/ bad etc. I see nothing wrong in being weird, it's just difference from my worldview.
And I accept that even though these are my views, I can be hypocritical at times but also believe life is irony so accept that in myself as well. Employ empathy and you can't go wrong generally imo.
Clear as mud my mind is 😉

@ChestRockfield
It's exactly when a majority doesn't accept something that a minority thinks that legislation comes to the rescue.

This is why instead of society organically accepting, or rejecting, these alternative lifestyles we have a lot of legislation for, and against, it.

@TheMiddleWay Okay, I guess I'm unsure of your point then and how it relates. Are you saying that society is likely to never accept people like me and it would require some type of legislation (which I can't even theorize, and even if I could, could never imagine being a cause legislators would care about let alone introduce) to move it along?

Also, I don't think there's a lot of legislation that protects trans individuals, but the acceptance of it has grown tremendously over the past several years.

@ChestRockfield
If society can't accept people like you, and people like you have no legal or moral reason to not be accepted, then yes, the only choice is legislation.

There may not be legislation for trans rights but there certainly is a lot against it. And if history is any indication, before there is legilation FOR there is generally legislation AGAINST.

6

Wow! That's A LOT.

However, I completely acknowledge, without judgment, that you (and your friend) have every right to feel as you do.

We ARE conditioned to believe that wishing for the end of our lives is "wrong".

Personally, I do not believe in the so-called "sanctity of life".
I think that's a lie a lot of people have latched onto because we're supposed to. It's clear humanity really doesn't collectively believe in it.
If we did, wars, and murder, wouldn't be so prevalent throughout our history.

I also spent a few years working for a county agency. Among my duties as the assistant to the Director, I also trained and worked as a crisis-intervention volunteer. Suicide prevention was at the forefront of my training.

In the years since then, my position on suicide has evolved.

As unpopular and counterintuitive as it may seem to some people, I do believe that people have the right to end their lives when they see fit.

Unfortunately, there are too many cases, especially with children who identify as LGBTQ +, who feel so hopeless, they don't see their circumstances improving.
I think that sucks. Kids killing themselves because of the garbage they get from other people is reprehensible.
It's another reason I generally dislike most people.

You present your reasoning like a rational adult. I cannot fault you for feeling the way you do.

I wholeheartedly agree. People, especially kids, killing themselves because of the way other people make them feel is awful. And anyone feeling like killing themselves to escape that, even though they'd want to live if it wasn't for that, should seek help and I hope they get it. That said, there is no "help" for me.

@ChestRockfield I see no reason that you need help. I am in your camp for the most part.

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