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I'm still shaking. I shouldn't let myself be affected by people's dishonesty, but this was a friend I've know for more than a decade.

Andy was hosting a zoom discussion which had been a spin-off from a group sponsored by the Center For Inquiry-West. Andy is a biologist and owns a bio-research supply company, so I expect him to be honest and factual when it comes to biology, but he's also a Trumper and Fox-watcher.

Now Andy resisted getting the vaccine until about two months ago, but then went to a superbowl party and got omicron. He had three days of misery and then recovered.

Andy spoke at length about Covid, but repeatedly expressed strong fear that the vaccines would begin to cause rampant auto-immune diseases. He also complained about endocarditis being reported by vaccine recipients.

While a few people have reported auto-immune responses to the vaccine, these have been so rare as to only be anecdotal:
"...whether the association between COVID-19 vaccine and autoimmune manifestations is coincidental or causal remains to be elucidated."

Widespread and long-term inflammation during severe COVID-19 may cause the immune system to produce antibodies to pieces of the virus it wouldn’t normally recognize. Some of those pieces might resemble human proteins enough to trigger the production of auto-antibodies. Excessive inflammation could also boost production of auto-antibodies that had previously only existed in the body at very low levels.
"The team found that 20% of people hospitalized with severe COVID-19 had high or intermediate levels of autoantibodies to type I IFNs."
(Meaning, Actual Covid CAUSES auto-immunity at a significant level.)

Another finding:
A total of 141,208 individuals suffered at least one adverse events following immunization following 239.97 million doses of COVID-19 vaccination. The frequency of side effects was 0.04%, 0.06%, and 0.35% following administration of Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson's Janssen vaccines, respectively. Most of the patients had mild systemic side effects, the most common being headache (0.01%) and fever (0.01%). The frequency of serious side effects including anaphylaxis (0.0003%) and death (0.002%) was extremely low. (i.e. Side effects from the vaccine are infrequent. )
"The random-effects pooled proportion of placebo recipients reporting at least 1 systemic AE (adverse effect) after the first dose was 35.2% " (eg: More than a third of reported adverse reactions were PURELY self-induced!!!

Andy said that the heart-effects were due to the adjuvant. Indeed, adjuvants can cause auto-immune heart effects (adjuvants are often extracts from bacterial cell walls to which the immune system responds very strongly). However, it turns out that for the vaccines. they modify the covid spike protein itself to create an adjuvant (by methylating and by creating an aluminum salt derivative of the S-protein). (Meaning, it is possible for the tiny amounts of spike protein coming from the vaccine to cause a problem, the risk from actual Covid is much, much greater. As we know all too well: "People with heart disease are at increased risk of severe complications from COVID-19."

But, Andy was all in favor of Fauci being fired because he lied to minimize the consumption of masks (needed by medical staff) in the first few weeks of the pandemic.

I'm really disappointed that my friend is so self-deluded with Fox disinformation and would readily propagandize others rather than learn the truth. Be aware that this is where the assholes at Fox are aiming their lies.

Sucks to be him.

racocn8 8 May 9

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Well, doesn't matter how educated some people are they still can be stupid. I have been fully vaccinated and had no adverse effects what so ever.


Openness to blindly accepting reasoning full of fallacies in reasoning, and vulnerability to emotional excesses characterize Trump supporters.


Because I disdain most humans, I have virtually no friends here in MO. However, I unfriended people on FB who were Trumpers and anti-vaxxer (not that many of my friends were either). I can't tolerate ignorance AND stupidity for long.

My long time very good friend unfriended me on face book and in life because I did not have the same beliefs about covid as she has. I was ever so surprised at her actions.

@Jolanta actually, but the time Covid came around, most people with whom I share opposite opinions had unfriended me or I had done so to them. I can't think of anyone whom I actually unfriended over Covid. I know one of my cousins opposed the vaccines, but she never aired it in public. Her sister is a staunch vaxxer, though.

On the other hand, another cousin's wife who was a fervid Trumper unfriended me because I said anyone posting crap about how great Trump was on my profile would be unfriended. From what I gather, she opposed vaccines. That was ironic as her health sucks--even though I thought she was a hypochondriac until her foot had to be removed. She's still quite mentally ill, though.

@Gwendolyn2018 My ex friend started to go to someones place to watch anti vaxx videos. She has also stopped contact with some of her family over this, and that is after someone in her family died from covid.

@Jolanta for the life of me, I can't understand why people are so anti vaxxing. It seems that the old cliche of "you can't fix stupid" is correct.


I had to work to make it to the end such is my fatigue with dealing with the type of disinformation spouted by your friend. One thing sparked my interest though, and that was heart damage risk caused by the vaccine. My brother-in-law sustained heart damage, not from the vaccine as it wasn't yet available, but from COVID. My sister and he live in Seattle and were hit by the initial surge up there. He's under 40.


It's not about facts, it's about having common beliefs with others in the group. Religion and Fox have something in common.

MizJ Level 8 May 9, 2022

I work with Trumpers and Fox watchers and their dishonesty amazes me. My boss is one of them and he takes the stand that masks are useless and shots do not prevent Covid, so why get a shot. I've had Covid and also had the shots. Masks prevent someone from hocking a lugie across the room and hitting you. That is why I wore a mask, plus arguing will not change corporate minds. I'm so amazed that everyone is now a scientist and have put on their MAGA thinking hats to tell us what vaccines can do to hurt you and how these were developed to fast, etc., etc. My daughter is a nurse and also one of these. Every other day I hear a story of how being vaccinated caused autism or some other bullshit thing. Was it the vaccine or the needle? There is fear of both.

I think that I do have something left over after Covid. This might be because I am aware of my body and we have not had a SARS type like this Covid before. The best I know at 75 is that the disease did not kill me and I have been vaccinated my entire life.


It sucks to be disappointed by a friend.
I am very sorry.


I don't post this to put stock in the results or malign Fox News and certainly not glorify CNN.
I post this as evidence of the detrimental effect subscription based journalism has on our society, nothing more.

The manifold effects of partisan media on viewers’ beliefs and attitudes: A field experiment with Fox News viewers


Does his company stand to profit from misinformation? I can’t understand him trusting any media outlet over his biologist colleagues.

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