Some of us do not believe that Israel is the power behind Hamas. It makes no sense.

@DenoPenno Israel provided covert support for Hamas initially, divide and conquer. Now Hamas is the face of Palestinian resistance, Israel is hoist by their own petard.

@Druvius So Israel created their own enemy. Like I said, some of us do not believe.

I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm not Jewish, Moslem, or Christian; I'm technically agnostic and functionally atheist. I find the core beliefs of all the Abrahamic religions to be more than a little ridiculous. I consider the fundamentalist extremists on all sides toxic and dangerous. I have no business with Israel, and I don't like Netanyahu or his policies. I'm just an observer of this spectacle.

I don't like how Israel has responded to October 7, but I just keep bumping into these facts:

Up until the recent ceasefire, Hamas still had two or more brigades in the field, actively fighting Israel. Israel's desire to eliminate that threat once and for all is, if not totally realistic, understandable.

The carnage visited on the Palestinian people would end instantly if Hamas were to lay down their arms and release their hostages;

Hamas is composed of Palestinian men;

these Palestinian men are using their own people as human shields;

the civilians being used as human shields do not denounce Hamas; they only blame Israel (and the USA) for the cruel usage by their own fathers, brothers, and sons;

the Palestinian position vis-a-vis Israel has not changed since the Idea of partition was first proposed nearly 100 years ago (i.e. that a Jewish state must never exist, that it would represent "nakba" (catastrophe);

The partition proposal may not have been perfect, but it seemed fair; the two sides would have gotten roughly equal amounts of land.

the Palestinian position is in conflict with a United Nations mandate;

the phrase, "from the river to the sea" that we are hearing from protesters today still means what it has always meant: that if they had their way, there would be no state of Israel between the River Jordan and the Mediterranean Sea.

I cannot help thinking about how things might have turned out differently if the Palestinians had decided to work within the framework of the United Nations. Instead, they engaged in terrorist attacks, decade after decade.

There just isn't any patch of desert in the world that I would bomb a civilian bus over. Especially when it is obvious that such action will achieve nothing regarding the status of that land.

Nor would I send missiles into civilian neighborhoods (something both sides have done).

The Palestinians have stirred up enough passions to get Israel's neighbors to launch all-out wars against the Jewish state. In no case did the aggressors prevail. Israel ended up with more territory than before. Many Palestinians fled the scene. I'm not sure Israel is obligated to relinquish the land they gained or allow the Palestinians who left to return.

The conflict has spilled over into many other countries, and has fueled radical Islam world-wide. It is indeed a catastrophe, and both Israelis and Palestinians are responsible.

See @annewimsey500's explanation of "hate is its own reward" below.

I'd like to hear you elaborate on that

@Flyingsaucesir you are raised in hate...your family suffers deeply because your father or mother was blown to bits doing something hateful, (or just standing on a streetcorner, as happens sometimes) and you raise your children to hate on account of the previous generations choice to hate. Then you get imprisoned, or dead, because of hateful actions you encourage or actually carry out, as per your childhood training, and your family suffers even more, so your Trained-to-Hate kids do things that get them jailed or killed because hate is what they think they think they need to properly respond.
Anyone can see that there are other options and other places to be, both physically and mentally.....but you cannot see them because you KNOW Full Of Hate is the only way to be, and it makes you feel full of purpose.
It is a Cycle of giving, but not in a good way.
Haters feel totally righteous and justified, hate rewards them.

@annewimsey500 Awesome explanation! Thank you!

Not which god; they all believe in the same god. What they disagree over is which prophet...

@Flyingsaucesir I stand corrected.

No, the Palestinians are fighting for their freedom from a brutal occupying power. The Israelis are fighting to steal the land they conquered from non Jews.

@Druvius true dat!