Talks about difficulty in getting accurate numbers. How Gaza Health Ministry figures accepted by Israel spooks aka Mossad, the UN, WHO but not "Israeli authorities" apparently. They say 37,396 dead. This is the real sobering paragraph for you (indirect deaths are those who die because of war eg starvation, exposure, bad hygiene, disease, not reported dead/ missing etc.)

"In recent conflicts, such indirect deaths range from three to 15 times the number of direct deaths. Applying a conservative estimate of four indirect deaths per one direct death9 to the 37 396 deaths reported, it is not implausible to estimate that up to 186 000 or even more deaths could be attributable to the current conflict in Gaza. Using the 2022 Gaza Strip population estimate of 2 375 259, this would translate to 7·9% of the total population in the Gaza Strip. A report from Feb 7, 2024, at the time when the direct death toll was 28 000, estimated that without a ceasefire there would be between 58 260 deaths (without an epidemic or escalation) and 85 750 deaths (if both occurred) by Aug 6, 2024"

186,000 is a big number.

@puff That is a big number and just so saddening! RIP people who suffered through this

@michelle666gar Kind of like the children's hospital the Russians blew up today as well as the maternity clinic.... But @puff supports the Russians...

@Lizard_of_Ahaz War of any kind is wrong!

@michelle666gar But it only takes one side to start that war and if you refuse to fight back you die...

@Lizard_of_Ahaz Makes me think about this song

@michelle666gar And what is the message it sends? If you refuse to fight back you are slaughtered...

@Lizard_of_Ahaz You're a traitor, and must be killed

@michelle666gar
I would rather die on my feet like a man than die on my knees like a slave...

@michelle666gar Which is why civil wars are so complex ie who's the traitor? Those who support a duly elected, then overthrown via violent coup government? Or those who supported overthrowing the duly elected government? This is Ukraine and it gets confusing who's side has that countries actual best interests at heart.
Gaza, in a way, could be classed a civil war as both Israel and Palestine claim "the river to the sea". The same land/ country. Except it is religious/ race based war with a self declared, colonial Master Race carrying out their Final Solution for the "Native" problem, the Palestinians. Good to see you support Palestinians @Lizard_of_Ahaz
The quote I know, from Midnight Oil (Aussie band) is "It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees".

@puff Yeah after all isn't Russia showing how much they care about Ukraine by trying to destroy their entire culture and murder the population?... There is no mystery unless you are a complete idiot who thinks Scooby Do solves mysteries.... or are a paid Russian troll who pops a boner every time another Russian missile is fired by them at homes, apartments, churches, markets and stores crowded with customers, schools with children in them or hospitals which saboteurs afterwards leave poisoned water for the responders or victims....
Since you constantly make foolish arguments and idiotic comparisons unrelated to the facts based entirely on Russian and Chinese propaganda I can only assume you are just another Russian cannibal pervert jerking off over the innocent dead from Putin's illegal and aggressive attempt to take control of more territory regardless of how many bodies he has to walk over to win his war of expansion.
To be a "civil war" Ukraine would have had to have been a part of Russia when they attacked when the reality is they were an internationally recognized independent nation....

@puff "I would rather die on my feet like a man than die on my knees"

Emperor Constantine dummy...

"Like a slave" is my contribution....

@Lizard_of_Ahaz This sure sounds like a civil war to me. I like how they say Russian backed separatists but don't mention government forces were NATO backed. Civil war.

"The armed conflict in Eastern Ukraine started in 2014. Between then and early 2022, it had already killed over 14,000 people. Over the course of eight years, Ukrainian government forces fought Russian-backed separatists for control over much of the two heavily industrialised regions of Donetsk and Luhansk, also known as Donbas. Fierce battles in 2014-2015 ended with one third of the regions’ territory, its most urbanised part, occupied by two Russian proxy statelets, the self-described Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics. Between September 2014 and February 2015, Russia, Ukraine, France and Germany signed several iterations of the so-called Minsk agreements, which eventually stopped the forward movement of troops and reduced fighting significantly. But the agreements were never implemented, and the fighting transformed into a trench war, with roughly 75,000 troops facing off along a 420-km-long front line cutting through densely populated areas. The war ruined the area’s economy and heavy industries, forced millions to relocate and turned the conflict zone into one of the world’s most mine-contaminated areas." [crisisgroup.org]

@Lizard_of_Ahaz Power and the Passion

@puff Those weren't "separatists" dumbass they were Russian special forces and if you had watched the second video I posted on my OP you would have found out they are a part of the far Right-wing neo-NAZI movement in Russia.... Russia deals in propaganda using smoke and mirrors. There is ZERO ambiguity here this has always been a war of aggression.
Oh and FYI NATO was NOT involved at the start it was just the US, EU and some of the ex-Soviet bloc countries...

@puff So are you now trying to claim they wrote this song sometime in the mid 3rd century CE?.... It does NOT change the fact you are wrong and refuse to accept facts which makes you a complete idiot at best....

@Lizard_of_Ahaz Yes which is why Ukraine is referred to as a proxy war. Russian gave material support with things like Wagner etc. Meanwhile the US along with NATO were training and equipping Ukraine government forces and militias. CIA has admitted bases were built. Biolabs confirmed as funded.
A true proxy war "backed" by opposing superpower sides.
A proxy war fought by Ukrainian's for NATO against Ukrainian's for Russia, making it a civil war as well.

@Lizard_of_Ahaz Who said it who cares, it means stand up to oppression rather that bow to it. We agree. Well, that is the Palestinian cause.

@puff Wagner was also a NAZI outfit.... Which you would also have known if you had watched the video I mentioned... And again you are completely wrong it was never a civil war as Ukraine is an independent nation ... This war was about Ukraine wanting to be a part of the EU so they could trade directly with European countries and Russia trying to block them from doing so in order to bring Ukraine back under their control. Something in your infinite ignorance you obviously don't know is the Ukraine used to be the old USSR's version of Silicon valley which is why many of the ships Russia has no longer work because they can not fix or maintain them... Same goes for a lot of their nuclear arsenal and infrastructure....

@puff No you are all for sending nearly 40 million people to their deaths....

@Lizard_of_Ahaz 40 million? Where did that come from? The EU won't accept Ukraine, too corrupt. As you say Ukraine is a rich land. Much of it has been released to foreign control by Zelenskyy. Has to pay for his war somehow.

@Lizard_of_Ahaz But you are a slave, you might be the most propagandized human being I've ever encountered.

@puff Hey dumbshit they are candidates already and have been working to end the corruption. But of course stupid people don't know that prosecutions for corruption are signs that it is no longer rampant like it s in Orban's Hungary....

@Druvius You are the slave in that case because you are one of the stupidest right-wing true believers I have ever encountered....

@Lizard_of_Ahaz

The leading cause of death is stupidity. If I lived in Gaza or Ukraine, I'd take my family and get my them out of there by anyway it takes. There are many other countries that are freer and more peaceful than Russias or the US greed and violence. ..
US President's and less so, Putin are terrorists, bullys. And the ultimate of stupidity world war three proxies or economics chess game.Nothing worst than anyone to killing another human, end of story.

I'm prepared for this hide and seek world championship. Rather switch to good sense than fight the greatest loose loose on both ends.

How are you prepared, if they cut you off the grid.? Or are going to fight tooth and nail for your personal solution? Fuck the bulliy killionaires, run.

@Castlepaloma Easy to say when you aren't a refugee.... Many countries are bigoted against them thanks to evil shits like Trump who panders to his ignorant moron followers who believe they will be replaced by people like them.... Up until recently the UK had the same problem and if the things I have heard from some of the Australians here are how that country feels towards these people the same problem holds true there as well.... Then you have France wand Italy with their far right-wing NAZI movements as well... Grow up and learn something before waging that tongue of yours and looking as stupid as you are...

Oh but your buddy Poo-tin has offered to take in 50,000 Gaza refugees because he needs more meat for his war on Ukraine. Ukraine should offer them a chance to join their army instead with a path towards citizenship.... not only would their chances of survival be much higher but they would get a chance to help defeat the scumbag who helped start the war against them by pushing Iran to offer the terrorists there the weapons to fight Israel in the first place...

@Lizard_of_Ahaz
You rather fight than to switch to peace and freedom. From traveling over 100 countries I already know how to immigrant and some countries become a citizen in two or three years. US is only 5% of the worlds population, and legends in their own mind. Absolutely killing won't stop killing or violence with violence. Your welcome to those contintious suffering hit on the head lessons.

@Castlepaloma With people like Putin in the world you can have either peace or freedom you will never be allowed to have both and only a moron thinks otherwise...
Do you even know who it was who said "Violence never settles anything?".... It was one of the most prolific mass killers in history a man named "Temüjin" or for the ignorant like you... "Genghis Khan"...

@Lizard_of_Ahaz

I don't see Russia bombing in every continent, Yet we do see the US Corp military continues martial law since Abraham Lincoln's death. Has US violence or killing settle anything for them other than one win, that being the Mexican war, that stoled from the largest aztec natives in North America.

Khan is a tyrant who typically don't practice what they preach, like the US military Complex. Times have changed from the 13th century China to China today who haven't had a major war since 1979.
US bullies are finally over their head matching up with Russia and China. Chinese quote, the firey dragon can not defeat the snake in the grass. BRICS beats G7 in population, land mass. produce and economic. That's game, set and match. .

And I don't like tyrant like Putin, he plays a game of chess, that out played the west. .Worst game of life possible. I play the game of life of tic for tac.best game of life among 600 other games of life.

@Castlepaloma Then you are mostly blind and very stupid.... The Russians have been very active in the Middle East, Slavic region, Africa and South America trying to bring small countries under control using military force. You just don't pay attention preferring to bad mouth those who fight against them for freedom while hiding like the coward you are...

@Castlepaloma US bullies are over their head with the Houthi's lol

@puff

Now all these snakes in the grass countries unite. The US and all of NATO firey dragons can't defeat them.

@Lizard_of_Ahaz

What are you talking about? Argentina, Egypt, Ethiopia, Iran, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates have all been new members of BRICS, Then mostly 50 countries from Latin America, Middle East and the Continent of Africa. Who are trying to join the BRICS.

What countries want to join the G7.?, except wealthy self Interest groups, because more for them and less for us. Some European countries are joining NATO for their last ditch of angered paper Tigers.

@Castlepaloma You and @puff both need to lay off the meth you are both delusional...BRICS is falling apart and if Iran isn't real careful somebody is going to destroy their military industrial complex very soon which will end most of the problems in the middle east. The Saudis just blustered and made threats but they need the west to supply not only customers but also their military equipment....

@Lizard_of_Ahaz

The much closer BRICS Customers areBRICS countries, with rhave real gold, trade products and services to move in harmony. . No longer that monopoly money under the slower guns and lacking manpower of the west.

I know nothing about meth.
What's it like?

@Castlepaloma Want to know what meth is like just ask Trump rumor has it he snorts adderall and says a lot of the same batshit nonsense you do... FYI Russia is running out of gold and money and most of what they trade for is weapons so much for "peaceful" huh?
BRICS is not doing as well as you might think since three of those countries are collapsing economically and Saudi Arabia isn't as big as you think it is as well as being completely dependent on the G7 nations for Revenue as is Russia, China' Brazil , the UAE and others... Also it looks like Argentina is opting to leave BRICS because their economy is now in the shitter and buying from China isn't working out so well for them anymore. Interest rates there are at last word 50% and inflation has been in triple digits...
India is also having real problems and Modi has turned to buying votes with food to stay in power but still many people there are starving. Yeah sounds like a real winner BRICS does...

@Lizard_of_Ahaz

Trump doesn't need meth. When Trump has wet dreams, he is thinking about himself.

@Castlepaloma Or raping 12 year old girls....

@Lizard_of_Ahaz

It's seems most US President are having sex with their young or showering with their daughters.
I don't trust them all. even less than the religious fairytale.

@Castlepaloma As much as you are thinking about this my guess is you are the one having sex with your young....

@Lizard_of_Ahaz

You brought up raping 12 year old girls!, your it.!!!

@Castlepaloma Actually I brought up the FACT that two of the last four presidents paid to rape underage girls and both of them are Republicans.... You on the other hand seemed to think such behavior was fine and dandy...

@Lizard_of_Ahaz

Don't support any of these top US politicians and their raping and piliaging millions around the world. Theift, murder and rape. No way I would go near these spamming, unethics or worshiped Gods. Or would lower my decency to these terrorists tyrants,so called leaders, like most do.

@Castlepaloma But you support Putin and his block who rape, pillage, commit acts of genocide all over the world... Look at what they are doing in central Africa....

@Lizard_of_Ahaz
the president of the African country, told the African Initiative news agency.

"We would like Russia to build a base in CAR," he said. "The government has already provided a plot of land in Berengo, a place 80 kilometers west of the country’s capital, Bangui.

Ngouandika said that the existing infrastructure in Berengo permits the deployment of up to 10,000 servicemen.

"The purpose of the Russian military presence in CAR is to train our soldiers," he said. "We are 1,000% committed to Russia and we believe that Russia should stay with us. If Russia abandons us today, we will be eaten up by Western states that have done nothing for our country since our independence.".

Russia needs to protect its boarders much like US wouldn't want Russia military in Canada or Mexico. All understandable

@Castlepaloma And why?... Oh yeah bribery and threats most likely just like other countries that are now paying the price with the lives of their people in meat waves against Ukraine....