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There is a move towards religious fundamentalism in the world, particularly among the Abrahamic religions and it is disconcerting to me as an Atheist. Why then are some Atheists and Agnostics apologetic about their position on religion? Does a belief system as delusional and dangerous as religion deserve respect, especially when it does not return respect to those who refuse to believe in its delusions?

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All people deserve respect, but not their beliefs or their religions. I try to keep all of my arguments under my own skin. For example, I might say I strongly disagree, you are mistaken, or I cannot respect that attitude, rather than flatly stating WRONG or you are an idiot.

One key driving force behind the rise in fundamentalism is the economic decline for large segments of society. When economies grow and the well-being of everyone is improving, the trends are toward liberalization, greater understanding and acceptance of others.


It's because of the increased influence of religion on public policy that I've become
an anti-theist.
I used to be one who had no issue with anyone's beliefs, as long they didn't try to
force it on me, or anyone else who wasn't interested.
Unfortunately, that position is no longer possible to maintain.
I have no respect for any religion, none. I also do not respect anyone's religious beliefs.
I only tolerate them, by law. I resent the fact that believers feel so emboldened to force their beliefs into the lives of others.

KKGator Level 8 May 16, 2018

I respect the fact you can have a belief but I don't have to respect the belief ( works for opinions aswell) but basically that's my take on it . Its a shame they've amassed so much money do they can be in so much control

Simon1 Level 7 May 16, 2018

Not all atheists view religion as top priority to challenge. Many atheists are concerned about other issues such as health care, abortion, education, foreign affairs, military, etc. which will lead them to associate with anyone who supports their stances on those issues, even if the person is religious. This is why some atheist groups have participated in events that include religious groups - they share similar values.


We must not lose respect for human beings. But, when evil rears it’s ugly head we must be prepared to take a stand! We must learn the best way to do that, and still having no guarantee for our success.


How are you using the word 'apologetic'? If you mean that atheist/agnostics are behaving as xtian apologists & defending xtianism - I don't think so! Just b/c someone prefers to be cordial doesn't mean that one agrees with the opposing position!

atheist Level 8 May 16, 2018

Perhaps I am more militant in my Atheism than others but I do try to be cordial whenever possible and it is certainly easier to do so when the religious belief isn't fundamentalist in nature. However, when some one gets in my face with their , either proselytizing or demonizing me or claiming some special moral rights because of their kooky beliefs then it's gloves off time. It is really irksome to have someone else who I know to be an atheist or agnostic sit quietly on the sidelines while someone else stands up for them because they want to be cordial, long after the time for being cordial is gone.

@Surfpirate I understand where you're coming from but it's not your responsibility to defend someone else's atheism/agnosticism! But by all means defend yours! smile001.gif


It does not deserve respect, but the right to believe what you want, as long as it physically harms no one is important.

The problem is, when I tell a Christian that I will die for their freedom to believe, only 2 out of ten will reciprocate.

Should we offer to ‘die’ over any right or stand tall protecting human rights? I am not willing to die for anyone, even if it turns out that I lose my life standing for human’s rights?

I hope I am never put in that position.

I am not willing to die for religious rights. One has to determine for oneself what they are willing to die for. Surely, I am not going into yet another Imperialist war which the Oligarchs has manipulated the masses to do for centuries.

Should true Revolution come to the US or somehow rise up globally, yes I would be willing to die, and more importantly, if need be to kill- providing-- I believed the cause(s) to be just. The world is a freaking mess, whatever it would take...


@Freedompath if you'll go to the extreme, you'll also partake in more moderate methods. My point is, I will do what's right, regardless of the consequences.

It's a measure of how real a person is. If you cannot be selfless for the right reasons, you're not truly good nor real.


@NotConvinced your last paragraph is your opinion, to say that a person is ‘not truly good nor real,’ cannot be a ‘fact!’ Many circumstances play into why any person behaves in certain ways, at different times. Is there any person that is completely ‘selfless,’ all the time...’even for the right reasons?’ I think not!

@Freedompath It's one good indicator. Good and moral are subjective, but being selfless is easy to gauge. My perspective mostly(few things are 100%, but 100% does exist) does that.

Now, I could be lying, but you aren't and admit you are not selfless. This means you'll do evil for selfish reasons or, at the very least will compromise your own morals.

The last part of your statement is not only an assumption, it's a strawman argument created to justify your own position.


@NotConvinced of course I am justifing my position, same as you! You appear to be putting me beneath you...that certainly does not exemplify ‘selflessness!’ Your argument want hold up...you have exposed your inner workings!


I don't respect religion, not because I'm not respected as an atheist, but because religion is delusional and dangerous.

Never apologize for who you are.

Kbdank71 Level 6 May 16, 2018

Political correctness rears its ugly head, I think.


There is no requirement that every thought must be communicated. I think a wise person considers a number of factors before deciding whether to criticize, correct, or pass judgement on another person's beliefs: Is it helpful? Will it cause harm? Is this the right time and place? Is it the truth? Are you sure? Really sure?

For me, I'm happy to engage in friendly debate or discussion, but when words get heated, I prefer think hard about whether it's worth continuing. There was a meme going around a while ago, something like: "your Facebook post about politics has really changed my mind, said no one EVER!"

jerry99 Level 5 May 16, 2018

Yep. Pick your battles.


Fear. But, Atheists and Agnostics are now less apologetic about their position on religion than I have ever known them to be. They didn't simply used to be apologetic, they were in denial and for good reasons.
You can still, and I would argue should, respect other people without necessarily respecting their beliefs. Think of them as victims of their belief systems...which they are.

Heraclitus Level 5 May 16, 2018

I am also frustrated and concerned about this huge push to fundamentalism. I think it brings authoritarianism on the same dark cloud. I wish I could believe the move to fundamentalism is simply economic, but I think its a lot more complicated.

Some other factors probably include major shifts in society:

  • technology, which helped spread information about fundamental views
  • rapid changes to societal norms- divorce becomes accepted, LGBTQ rights, pot smoking legal, free porn, loss of membership in religions due to spread of information
  • advancement of science - more pesky facts that don't fit the narrative

    All of that leads to fear for someone that believes, people will do some wacky stuff when they get scared. Especially if they actually believe that they must do something or be tortured eternally.

People deserve respect, no reason to go out of your way to disparage their belief. If they want to push their religious opinions though nothing wrong in pointing out why you disagree.

I had Mormon missionaries at my door a decade ago sent by a third party that actually knew us, my ex invited them in and fed them. I was a bit pushy about why I did not believe. They did not have good answers to my inquiries about why their views were correct or why I should abandon my views. I think I had absolutely no effect on them whatsoever in the end.

CPAgnostic Level 2 May 16, 2018

I am not apologetic and I am quite vocal.

I despise religion.


I should have respect for someone just because they are of the opinion that the supernatural is real?
Get real or get buggered.

Mortal Level 7 May 16, 2018

No. Religions deserve no place in society.
Neither do I respect religious people.


I have NEVER apologized for my stance and in fact have (regretfully) had to let go of most of my family members since they do not seem to share my ability to live and let live. I actually had an aunt who encircled me with a few friends, while I was holding my two-year-old, to pray over me and invite Jesus into my heart. I moved out-of-state shortly thereafter.

That's exactly the sort of sneak, weird ass shit that religious fundamentalist feel completely justified in doing and that's a big reason I cannot respect them. I had a client invite me to a men's business breakfast which I reluctantly agreed to because in my mind I'm thinking no women? Sure enough, the business breakfast turned out to be in a church and the men were promise keepers, what a bunch of nut jobs, never did business with that guy again. I also found out later that he was up on charges for beating his wife and his secretary had been his mistress for years.

@Surfpirate I know right?? It's nearly always the fundamentalist Christians that are the biggest fruitcakes.


I don't care...


...because these crazy motherfuckers will, at the least, make it hard for us to live if we don't show some level of faux-respect for their madness or, at the worst, risk some of them trying to kill us. I grew up around these cultist; tread carefully.


I think that a lot of people are apologetic because of the social pressures involved. Despite a clear lack of basic human or social decency on the part of many people of faith, they nevertheless make up a substantial majority of the human population. By being apologetic, people signal to others that "hey, I'm an atheist/agnostic, but perhaps we can still manage to be friends anyway, because I'm not out to get you". It also alows them to fit in better without denouncing their beliefs.

To me, it is similar to black people who code-switch. They do it for a number of different reasons, but the most basic is that it makes it simpler for them to interact with white assholes when it is necessary for them to do so. By the same token, atheists and agnostics who speak or behave apologetically toward people of faith are essentially greasing the skids in order to smooth out the interactions.

As to the question of whether or not we should show respect to people who are disrespectful themself, I would say it depends entirely on the situation. There are always power imabalances to take into consideration. But as a general rule, no, they aren't particularly worhty of respect. People are worthy of respect, courtesy, consideration, and dignity by the simple virtue of being human... unless they prove themselves unworthy of such consideration by being disrespectful to others or perpetrating injustice against others. Many people of faith are perfectly respectful, although the more extremist their own sub-culture, the less likely that becomes, but to be sure there are many that have stripped themselves of their worthiness for respect.

Additionally, there is a distinction, and an important one IMO, between respecting a person (or at least treating them with respect) vs. respecting their belief systems. For most people of faith, their delusion and belief is not particularly harmful, and most are not particularly disrespectful of non-believers (they may speak or act out of ignorance and illogic, but they generally are not malicious).

I think the real question you are asking is: "aren't we at least justified in taking the low road instead of the high road?". And to that I would have to ask, does it matter? Taking the low road often feels good and certainly can be cathartic, but in most cases it results in worse circumstances rather than improved ones. So why not exemplify better than them exactly the sort of attitudes and behaviors that they are supposed to exemplify? Is it better to berate someone for their beliefs? Or is it better to show them that a person can be a paragon of humanity without those beliefs?

Beyond that, it would serve to polarize the disparity between believers vs. non-believers. You would convince them of nothing, they would convince you of nothing, and you would mutually escalate animosity. That sort of vicious circle tends not to end well for anyone.


It doesn’t make me apologetic, but rather ethical. So no loud words, no propaganda and no moral arguments against worshipping and believing


...and that's exactly why I am fine living in apathy. I don't like confrontation in any direction. The ones who believe and follow any religion, fine with me..The ones who don't believe, fine with me too. But, when the time comes to take side then that's when I have to use the "I don't care" card

IamNobody Level 7 May 16, 2018

This rings so true today; we are anesthetized with your techno-toys plus the usual sex, drugs and, R&R. I will speak out as ONE of MANY whom are totally fed up with our government,TOO!


It seems to me that people are moving away from religion! I have a hard time understanding how people can still believe in the holy books when all the stories are so far fetched! How could a person live in a whale, or how did they get animals from the far away place for their boat cruise, or where did the wives comefrom for Adam and Eves boys? That is just some of the silliness in the holy books.

Johnnyvee Level 3 May 17, 2018

Things seem to be progressing toward tribalism quickly. We can work with people who think differently than we if we have a larger common issue to fight. If a religious person is accepting of me I can be accepting of him although we might find fault with each others beliefs . Neither has to be apologetic about their core beliefs. Argue those things later. Niemoller was talking ideologies and it is true that religions are ideologies but not all the religious are part of the problem. We can't really fight the larger problems by ourselves.

gearl Level 7 May 16, 2018

As an agnostic, I've seen good and evil in both theists and atheist.
Why then would I want to disrespect one but not the other?
In fact, I choose to respect both since beliefs don't kill people, people kill people.
It's not the belief that is dangerous or delusional, but what a person does with those beliefs.
And thus it's not apologetic to treat both the theists and atheists as people, not as stereotypes.
After all, you are calling them delusional and dangerous the same as they call you delusional and dangerous and condemning them for not accepting your beliefs the same as they condemn you for not accepting theirs;

Do you see how you are the same person, but with just different beliefs; how a theist is the mirror reflection of an atheist, same behaiviour, just flipped around each claiming they are the real person and you are the fake image?

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