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I never understood, even when I was an Evangelical, how christians loved warmongers and warmongering, when the Jesus spoke against it.

Rideauxb 7 May 31

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28 comments

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1

You seem to be confusing silence with advocacy. The story as presented has him essentially silent on the issue of war. Is this silence approval or disapproval of the teachings of the OT?

10

Cuz they're hypocrites, that's why.

When they say they are a good Christian. I think of, you mean you are a good hypocrite.

@Castlepaloma Exactly.

No they are following god's words in the bible

@Marine
With a hell of a lot of wrong translations.

@Castlepaloma No the translation are correct it is the writing that is wrong. What would you expect when it was written over three hudren years!

@Marine
People from the Bronze age, who barely live pass age 25- 30 .Trying to relate to people today with 1000s of conflicting Christian denominations and 1000 of hand me downs retranslated. Then many wrongly translations from Hebrews. A mixture of poems, scripts, stories loosely put together backed by very little evidence and historical facts.

How many thing could go wrong? In the book of Universal truth and Knowledge.

7

I have posted this before but this is a good place for it.

I just love Stephan Colbert!! That comment really explains trumps base and why they just do not see the lies or hear the truth.
Humans have the ability to rationalize bigly.

7

Is it no a great irony that the three most popular hymns (discounting xmas carols) ever written are

Onward Christian soldier
Battle hymn of the republic
and
All things bright and beautiful

Sort of, become a Christian, admire the wonder, splendour and beauty of god's creation, and then blow the fucking shit out of it!

Your omitting "Amazing grace" and " Jerusalem"?

@273kelvin
Jerusalem was William Blake's big joke on the Christian religion, it is full of pagan symbolism, and asks a question that the blatant and obvious answer to is a resounding NO! and yet is still hailed as a christian hymn by ignorant religionists.

7

It's just cherrypicking as usual. The Bible can be warped to suit almost anyone's needs, when almost everything is left up to "interpretation." I see cherry-picking happen with Christians a lot when they know that something in the Bible is stupid, so they wave it away with the phrase "well, you're taking it in the wrong context." What they really mean to say is, "This is clearly stupid and outdated nowadays, so we're just going to ignore it." Like the passage in Leviticus about stoning blasphemers, for example. So, a war-loving Christian cherry-picks out the parts about peace, and focuses on the war-like parts, such as the Old Testament mythology wherein God burns his enemies with warlike fire, and/or causes the Israelites to win impossible battles. I would say the Old Testament is much more focused on war.

Yes, and the bible is so diverse and contradictory that just about anything can be supported with a quote from the bible.

6

I feel compelled to add here that should be careful to avoid the Jesus the preacher of love and goodness and all that stuff myth, which has more or less evolved post Enlightenment in parts of modern humanism influenced christianity, a take which is hardly consistent with the bloody, repressive and authoritarian bulk of christian history. Exactly what the real Jesus said, if there was one, is highly speculative, and may have more militaristic and political than is realised. I for one refuse to buy into any of these Jesus the prophet of love and peace myths, as this character is more like an concoction of supposed sayings created and added to over thousands of years. The love and peace blurb of the modern christian message, as far as I can see and from what I have read, stems more from the influence of humanist philosophy on this religion, not that christians would ever admit it. For most of its history christianity has been synonymous with war, oppression, class power, and authoritarianism. When I hear christians rambling on about christian love and brotherhood I'm inclined to say, "With your history? Give me a break. "

6

I guess seeing the odd dichotomy came easy for me. My mother was not a happy home maker. At the time she met my dad she was working as an x-ray tech and I think did not really want to have kids BUT society and family push the "SO, when are you having kids?".
They were blessed with twins, we were incubator babies and probably never really bonded with mom (I'm being charitable). So growing up she'd be this angry silently raging bitchy woman all day. Dad walks in the door at the end of his day and she's "How was your day Hon, kiss kiss?" Very sweetness and light. As a a kid I'm thinking, "WHO is this woman and where has she been all day?"
Saw right thru the church thing and by the age of 12 just flat out refused to go.
The strange thing is my twin joined the church, is still a bible thumper and trump supporter.
We don't talk much and live on opposite side of the country. LOL

6

Jesus also preached tolerance for tax collectors (who were unfair and hated), adulterers, and not to judge: Many Christians lack tolerance and liberally judge others.

The reason is because The Christian Scriptures preach against what are inherent traits of human nature. We evolved by fighting and putting self as number one: recorded history is packed with tales of battles and wars. Humans also have an innate need to elevate themselves over other humans; thus, they judge.

Christians are people, and like people everywhere, they validate their basic human wants by using a god to explain why "it" is fine to do so.

6

I don’t understand either. Supposedly taught one thing and support/do the opposite. Hypocrites.

6

"Behold, I come not to bring peace on earth, but a sword"--Jesus
Same religion, different Dogma

5

It speaks well if you, that you cannot fathom this topic.

5

Onward Christian soldiers marching as to war. Many can't tell the difference.

This song is symbolic. It is not about physical war.

@Gwendolyn2018 Of course, and the symbolism is to war clearly indicating the christian soldier must act as if in war.

@Bobby9 If you do not already understand analogy and metaphor, I am not going to explain it to you at this point.

@Gwendolyn2018 I do oh high and mighty one. I also understand christian religions, which you may not.

@Bobby9 I understand people, and I understand that people have always gone to war. I also understand that the song is a metaphor, and if people see it as an actual call to go to physical war--be they Christian or atheist--it is personal application/perspective.

As I tell my literature students: literature is open to interpretation, and not everyone interprets a piece the same. The "proof" is the support from the work. If nothing else the use of the word "as" in the line, "Marching AS to war," not marching "TO" war tells me that the song is a metaphor. The war is not physical, but spiritual. Christians have waged wars, i.e. the Crusades, but the song is innocuous unless taken literally.

@Gwendolyn2018 I disagree that the song is a metaphor. The difference between "as" and "to" in this song is a semantic argument.

@Bobby9 "The difference between metaphors and similes is that similes hit you over the head with the comparison by using explicit words such as “like” or “as,” -- When Jon Bon Jovi sings “My heart is like an open highway,” that's a simile because he used the word “like” to directly make the comparison."

You are right: it is a simile by definition.

My bad.

@Gwendolyn2018 Ditto my last comment

5

I totally agree. It's disgusting and hypocritical.

5

Big subject but essentially the fact is there is little connection between anything that the real Jesus said, even if he existed, which is debatable, and a great deal of modern Christianity, especially evangelical christianity, which is more a modern right wing moralistic regressive anti-modernist movement which tags itself to this vague historical figure they call Jesus. Truth is, most christians, including evangelicals know little or nothing about their so-called Jesus, other than simple statements and hollywood type biblical history, which is worthless.

5
4

Armageddon is the end goal , plus they are sending heathens to hell which is a good thing to them

This is the crux of it - Armageddon. They've been wanting this since the Crusades (or before), and the current wave of Dominionists are still looking for the End Times. Despite that pesky verse about "no one knows the day or the hour he will return." Hey, it doesn't fit the narrative of the Evangelicals/Dominionists, so we'll forget about that one.

@poetdi56 I'm convinced that they thought The Omen films were a guide book since they elected Trump

4

It is called selective hearing/reading/understanding.

3

War and killing for political reasons seem to be completely against humanism. War spreads suffering and death and harms humans. Seems like we need to be against it whenever possible.

3

You can sometimes bring peace through war. You need to fight to bring change. Total pacifism is useless. That's the paradox. But I understand your sentiment. But it's complex. But I'm again not supporting those war-mongerers, but just pointing out some dubiousness. And I don't think it's right to paint all Christians of so many sects from a whole spectrum like the way you did here.

3

Many people don't do what they believe in. Its called an improperly integrated personality, where the belief mind and action mind inhabit separate layers of thought. You might like to read Dabrowski's theory of positive disintegration.

3

His father never spoke against it ! Thats why he says one thing and does another !

3

Yes, Christians have too much concern for sex and war. So little interest in natural environment conditions.

Simple, Jesus said, do not kill unless your going to eat it. Same with war, where the condition in the Bible for war. Make it impossible to take war into action. Yet as a group in human history. Christians are the world Champion at murder, prisoners and war.

More people killed in the name of God than for any other reason. Easy example, is USA.

2

I agree. One of the reasons I began my deconversion was the debate I constantly had with fellow Christians about how healthcare for all was something Jesus would have wanted since he took care of the sick, poor, lepers and others. He wouldn't have said they were too poor to deserve healthcare. Likewise, I believed Jesus to be a peaceful being. I doubted very much that he would have supported people walking around with any kind of gun anywhere at anytime... Like an AR15 strapped to their back in a Target store. I pointed out multiple times that the bible NEVER addresses abortion, and that tax cuts for wealthy while cutting social programs for the poor is not something Jesus would support. Eventually, I was told by a friend that if you're a Christian you always vote republican no matter what. That was the beginning of the end of my religion. I had no idea why I kept fighting for morality when other Christians kept saying I was wrong for doing so. If that's what Christianity was then maybe I wasn't a Christian. I kept my values for healthcare for all just because they are humans, programs to help the poor, reproductive rights for women and free contraception for anyone who wants it, gun restrictions, anti war unless absolutely the last resort, spreading peace, fully embracing science, medicine, and vaccinations, and fully supporting wall between religion and government. At this point there are many times that I feel more moral than many Christians. Basically I now believe in being good without god, ending or minimizing suffering while encouraging people to pursue the most pleasurable life possible as long as its not at the expense of someone else.

2

A lot of the insidiousness of religion is the seeming to be one way, but then underlaying that with another way. "Love your brother", but if he is against your god, cast him out. Be willing to sacrafice your child in the name of your god. Love and honor your wife, but never forget that she got mankind kicked out of Eden. Your god is a loving god, the only god, so you must destroy all other gods. Your god is a "living"god, you just have to forget the definition of "living" . One must remember that religion is based on controling beliefs by fear and guilt.

2

As others have pointed out, it basically boils down to the contradictory ideals contained in their holy book. On one hand you have a god of war and, on the other, a god of peace. They invoke the one that supports whatever agenda they are pushing at the moment. For most of us nonbelievers it's just further evidence against their claim of moral superiority.

2

However the bible speaks of war often and it is cruel. Kill the children, women and burn the city to the ground is demanded many times in the bible. Make the men slaves. These are loving words of god.

That is God's unconditional love for you. Hell is there, because God loves you.
He has given you everything, all God wants is you to worship him with all your heart.

Some kind of broken parrot like this.

@Castlepaloma The parrot must have written the rules.

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