Agnostic.com

55 21

America: Do you believe Canada is a socialist country?

In order for a country to be socialist it requires a lack of economic freedom.

In 2018 Canada ranked ahead of the US in economic freedom. Hong Kong came 1st, Canada ranked 6th and the US placed 18th in the world. Yes, that's right.

It is a capitalist country, with social programs built in, offering public and private schooling as well and public and private health care. We have a social democracy, which is not to be confused with a socialist society.

Please tell me, is this news to you?

I post this question based on numerous direct messages I've received here asking about Canada. The most recent: "What are your feelings regarding the difference in our societies? The capitalist society of America vs the socialist society of Canada?"

Answer: Canada is not a socialist country. This has been a bill of goods American politicians have fed the American people as a scare tactic to win elections. No Canadian feels "un-free." We own our own homes, cars, businesses and can travel wherever we want, when we want to. It's true that we don't have to worry about going bankrupt over medical care, which is greatly liberating. The Canadian government also spends less on health care than the US government. There are many great countries in the world, but I couldn't imagine living anywhere else.

Athena 8 June 15
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

55 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

0

I would love to live in Canada except for the weather. Do they accept immigrants from the USA?

@Athena problem is the weather. I lived in Ohio most of my life and hated the weather. I live in Texas now and love the warm weather.

@Athena I might check it out. I've been to Ontario in the winter and froze.

3

And while we’re at it, none of the European countries often cited by the US right are socialist either - Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Netherlands, UK, France, Germany, etc. All are social democracies with fully functioning capitalist economies, and all often have right wing governments, as does Canada. The only one of them that has right wing governments that consistently seek to erode the social democracy is the UK. The Tory (Conservative) Party would prefer that we were more like the USA. It’s a constant struggle.

Agreed. I left UK for Australia 11 years ago and can't imagine what the social structure is like now

@Geoffrey51 Falling to bits mate. Absolute tragedy.

@KevinTwining Such a shame. I used to live in Hastings which, like a poor man's Brighton, had quite an eclectic community, especially the the Old Town. Probably a bit crap mow I guess 😟

0

No Canada is not a socialistic country, but they are not Lilly white either.

On trade they want to appear to be free market advocates but in fact they are not, "Canada uses supply-management systems to regulate its dairy, chicken, turkey, and egg industries. The regime involves production quotas, producer marketing boards to regulate price and supply, and tariff-rate quotas (TRQs) for imports. Canada’s supply-management regime severely limits the ability of U.S. producers to increase exports to Canada above TRQ levels. Under the current system, U.S. imports above quota levels are subject to tariffs (e.g., 245 percent for cheese, 298 percent for butter).​

The United States spends more on national defense than China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, India, France, United Kingdom, and Japan combined. While the chart above illustrates last year’s defense spending in dollars". This could be the reason Canada can spend so much on Health Care. Piggy backing off the United States when we are protecting its citizens.

On immigration many Canadians believe our ration policies are cruel. Canada's immigration policy is merit based and bias toward rich business men / women and the highly skilled work force.

Then there is the environmental aspects of Canada. They don't seem to have a problem polluting the Great Lake's. Even going to far as to endanger them by piping oil under the Mackinaw Bridge.

In conclusion I would just consider Canad to be yet another ungrateful country

MarkF Level 5 June 17, 2018

The US spends more on its military than the next 13 nations combined... And the US wouldn’t have it any other way!

America WANTS to be in charge of the world and arbitrate all its issues (in their own favor!).

So don’t complain about it!

Canada puts price floors on the farming industry (like the Yanks don't. Many states have minimum prices on milk, for example)

The Yanks subsidise their farming industry. Then they bitch because the Canadians won't let them dump the product.

Which is worse?

And yet Canada sends more troops into harm's way on peacekeeping missions. (Compared to just invading places and breaking shit, which is actually an easier task.)

4

Love me some Canuckians.
Way more socially democratic than we are is my impression? When are you guys going to invade us? Please????

Qualia Level 8 June 16, 2018

Yes please. That being said, IDK why Canada would want to take on such a massive problem child.

@Blindbird Yeah, we high maintenance boo...

@Qualia no joke

1

It sure is a hell of a lot more Socialistic than we are, but Socialism is, sadly, threatened in Europe these days and I believe it has a lot to do with Russia. I am sure they were behind the Trump victory but also were instrumental in "Brexit" and are working hard to influence other European countries. Putin wants to destroy NATO and return the eastern bloc to the fold. Make no mistake about it. there is no connection between Socialism and Totalitarianism (Putin's X KGB mentality). The USSR or Stalinism called themselves Socialists but they were Fascist. The US has equated Socialism with Communism since the fourties (and especially the Fifties).

@SACatWalker You're quite welcome (if you're not being sarcastic). The problem with Social Media is that you can't see peoples face and eyes when they "talk". L.O.L.

3

I have yet to hear a Canadian say they are moving to America....

6

People need to learn what the heck "socialist" means before throwing it around like a bad word. that would start with the OP's clumsy definition as well.

a lack of economic freedom is not the definition of a socialist country. it may be a characteristic depending on what you are observing and comparing it to - but the term itself means simply doing things for a social goal or in a social manner. thus either the ends or the means will be social ... that is directed towards satisfying a group of people vice an otherwise-specified goal or method. nothing more.

now if you wanna get into means of production and ownership then we should bring in the word communism to show that these 2 terms are different. communism is one way to run a country in a socialist manner, but not the only way. thats why it is called "scientific socialism". ideally you want a economic method that is a fusion between socialism and capitalism. socialism to keep the state functional and protect the workers with some capitalistic tendencies to promote growth and investment.

yes this is true. I don't know why 'socialism' is such a dirty word. There is certainly a lot of misinformation being fed to people. Socialism is a good thing when it provides free health care, education and other services that come from our taxes. Australia has been described as socialist but it's not at all. Let me go to Denmark. Democratic socialism for me.

@MsDemeanour because of a decades long propoganda war that many americans have bought hook, line and sinker.

1

I would really like to state something and this is supposedly the place to do it since the word socialist is being used. Any time people get together to perform something that affect the group that is a socialist act. Socialism has had many bad proponents in the past. There has been National Socialism, what the Nazi's in Germany tried in the early half of the 20th century and which is thought to be great by many today, there are the forms of socialism that form political parties in Europe and other countries, these seem to be working to some degree within the systems that have put them into power. In order for Socialism to exist several things have to come into being. First there has to be a place where the idea is seen to be a good one. What ever this is it has to be democratic, of all the people, for it to be sustainable, there has to be a manner in which the efforts and contributions of all (and I mean all) can be of benefit to all. There can be people who become wealthy, but they cannot have power over others because of this wealth. It would be great if there was a manner in which the abundance of wealth could be reinvested back into the economy so that it makes all better off. A Question: What would happen if we were all allowed a way to have clothing, food, shelter, health care, and some other necessities so we can all be taken care of in at least a minimal manner? Could there be a way for anyone with an idea for a new business or a new means to care for people, or for there to be a way to make sure everyone was cared for and made to be able to contribute something back to society? I will stop now since I am starting have my thoughts ramble and I may not make sense. Please reply with any and all thoughts as I am interested in seeing what others think. Really.

Again, the only “ism” that matters is HUMANISM !!

The problem with "National Socialism" is you can just put a word anywhere. I often come back on people who think Nazis were leftists because they had the word Socialist in their name that the Democratic Peoples Republic of North Korea must, by their same logic, be the freest country in the world, three times as free as a regular democracy.

Also, the so-called (by people who should know better) "Socialist countries" are actually social democracies. Now, you may disagree with their policies, you may think their tax schemes are not the best, but don't be so damned disingenuous by calling them Socialists.

2

Socialism, in regard to whether America or Canada is socialist, is over-hyped. Obama was "accused" of being socialist, yet the nation was overwhelmingly unsocialist for his entire term: it was just a GOP political label to demonize him. The truth being, pure capitalism does not work, and it's up to the propagandists to convince everyone that we are leaning too far towards socialism in order to maintain pure capitalism. This is part of the corruption of America.

godef Level 7 June 16, 2018

Capitalism most definitely works for the capitalist 1% and their ilk. IMHO

2

I applied to immigrate to Canada 8 years ago subsequent to my divorce seeking a new start on life. But I didn't have enough points to qualify for approval. The Canadian immigration attorney said that the only way I could qualify was if I was to marry to a Canadian woman. Sadly, I no longer have the resources to go now. But I would move in a heartbeat if I could.
I've been there a few times and I was impressed with the people and government compassion for taking care of the citizens.

4

The people who message you are confused about both countries it seems. USA is an oligarchy.

Marz Level 7 June 16, 2018

Quite true.

2

Americans are largely uninformed, ignorant, and brainwashed. This is not a criticism, rather a sad observation. In a dictatorship, people know the leader lies, and he knows they know. It is a giant game. Think North Korea or Saddam's Iraq. In the US, the lies are more subtle and large parts of the population buy the lies totally. To cite just one example, working class people voting for Trump, who turns around and guts social programs while giving 85% of the $1.5 trillion tax cut to the top 1%.

A good primer is to read Chomsky's essay on Manufacturing Consent, which explains how the process works.

6

Canada runs on a capitalist economic system with some elements of socialism built in which are designed to cater to the public good.

It's what the United States used to be before religious and massive private interest groups infiltrated our government and turned us in to a theocraric plutocracy.

2

You can't have a socialist country without a degree of capitalism if you're going to run on a currency system. The entire point to having a government is to govern the tribal tendencies of humanity. Even a full blown socialist government will be open to corruption and hording of wealth. Capitalist use socialism as a means to scare the population into the belief their free market ideology is the only way that works. There's nothing free about it when it provides the means to monopolize. Capitalism mixed with neoliberalism eventually leads to fascism. And Canada is presently experiencing some afforded movements along with Europe towards those changes. Follow the issue with these trade deals closely! They are simply a means to help corporations make more and take more from us! "Out Of The Illusion "

"The entire point to having a government is to govern the tribal tendencies of humanity. Even a full blown socialist government will be open to corruption and hording of wealth."

Borrowing this.

4

"socialism
noun
a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."

Sounds terrible, doesn't it? How would all the plutocrats, oligarchs, militarists, imperialists and corrupt politicians feather their nests?

Gareth Level 7 June 16, 2018
5

Using the word socialist is simply a way to scare uninformed voters away from federal programs that would benefit everyone. It is being used much as the word Communist was in the 70's and 80's. Now before everyone goes off on me, I'm not saying Communism and Socialism are the same, the tactic is the same.

And I do not consider Canada as a socialist country, simply smarter than a lot of them.

5

In my opinion most Americans associate socialism with communism. We have been fed that crap as long as I can remember.

7

Right wing media has been drumming up the socialist boogeyman for so long that it has basically lost all meaning in casual conversation here. Too many Americans not only don't know the definition, but they'll apply it in areas outside of economic organization. Basically, anything Alex Jones is against is socialism.

1

I thought it was before the NAFTA agreement thing but I now lean toward it becoming close to many of the USA things, that darn thing of money overriding principle and what NAFTA has caused.

4

Sounds like you’re talking to conservative trumpets or something. Yeah that’s not news to me or anyone that’s had a global frame of reference at all. I’m the first generation to grow up with the internet though and made friends from all the commonwealth countries in some of the early 90s message boards. I could see how some older conservative people might be misinformed enough to think this, but those are also the kind of people that think trumps doing fantastic work making us great again. 🤦🏼♂️

1

No not at all.

2

NO
If Canada was where Mexico is l would have moved there years ago. I hate long winters.

2

When you compare America to just about any other civilized country it clearly paints a picture of how badly we suck. Latest poll shows we ranked 18th in quality of life. Canada is usually at the top. If you're Canadian, your lucky.

0

Yes they are

0

Of course not but the American right would have you believe anything not Libertarian/Ayn Randish must be socialist.

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:108077
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.