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Trump Supporters!

I’ve just bumped into a couple of Trump supporters in here, I assume there are others,.... 😉..... and I have a question for you all. It’s gonna sound inflammatory, (which it of course is) because it’s direct. But it’s not a trap, I’m genuinely curious as to your thoughts.

How do you square your support of the man, his actions, language and policies,...... with your self image as a ‘nice’ person?

Linecaughtonly 4 June 21

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1

I could not agree more. It never ceases to amaze e how far one can push rationalization in order to ignore the obvious. In fact I think I just heard it screaming as another Trump supporter pushed another denial over a cliff.

t1nick Level 8 June 21, 2018
3

Lots of essentially negative opinions of Trump and his supporters here, I strive to understand those I disagree with. Just demonizing people isn't productive,

I'm not pro-Trump and I am a left leaning moderate, NOT his demographic!

My conservative friends (lol and yes, people CAN have real friendships with people they disagree with politically!) applaud his genuinely conservative policies and accomplishments.

This article is kinda annoying and some clickbait, but it does show some of Trump's conservative accomplishments.

[washingtontimes.com]

1

Intentionally or not, it seems no one actually addressed your question.

I’m trying not to read too much into that..... 😉

I’m gently nudging everyone back toward it,....

3

It seems to me that the only thing much different from him than anyone who has held office in the past is Trump opens up the window and yells it down the street where just about everyone else hid the dirty laundry in a shoebox under a mat in the walk-in closet.

azzow2 Level 9 June 21, 2018

Hi azzow, I’m quite specifically asking about Trump supporters, and their image of themselves,...... for the purposes of this thread, im not interested in Trump.

2

I didn't vote for Trump. He seemed too unstable and too rude during the Republican primaries, so I voted for Gary Johnson instead. However after he has been elected, he has been a pleasant surprise.

You have to separate his actions, his language, and his words from his policies.

As far as actions go. He has cheated on all of his wives and bragged about it, I certainly don't condone the choices he has made in his personal life, but his extramarital exploits pale in comparison to those of JFK, and the Democrats were willing to ignore all of that.

As far as his language goes. He speaks like many many New Yorkers. He's brash and abrasive and that turns some people against him. I have had enough experience dealing with New Yorkers that I find it amusing.

With respect to his policies, I'm 100% in favor of his "America First" platform. We elected someone to represent the American people and look out for the American people, and he has done a credible job at that. Starting post WWII, we instituted the Marshall Plan and many other programs to heavily tax American individuals and companies, then we sent that money abroad so foreign companies could build up the infrastructure to compete with us. We spent trillions of dollars protecting other countries from Communism and Radical Islam, and we asked for nothing in return. As a result, we are now more than $20,000,000,000,000 in debt. A change in policy that puts the long term economic interests of the USA first is long overdue.

With respect to the strategies he uses to achieve his goals, he is different from almost every other President we have ever had. The most similar President to him would most likely be Teddy Roosevelt. My mother read his book "The Art of the Deal" almost 30 years ago and she quoted some of the key passages to me. His strategy going in to almost every negotiation is to "rattle the cage" of the opposition. He would make an outrageously low offer and get the other party shook up, then treat that as the baseline for future negotiations. No other President post-WWII has taken that approach. When you couple his aggressive approach to the way it is reported by a mostly hostile news media, you get half the American public constantly spun up about the outrageous thing Trump has just done, and you get the other half of the American public with so much anti-Trump fatigue that they just tune it out.

BD66 Level 7 June 21, 2018

Thanks for your response BD66. My question was quite specifically about Trump’s supporters and their self image. You, and how you perceive yourself.

I’m interested to note that every response so far has been either to talk about Trump, his policies, his press or his opposition. Nobody has yet talked about themselves.

I’m lookimg for an honest, introspective response. As a Trump supporter, I’m looking for you to challenge yourself on it, as all good skeptics should. Pic something bad that he has done, something not nice. There’s lots obviously,..... child separation in detention camps, homosexual rights roll backs, molestation and misogynistic abuse ‘grab em by the p@ssy’, nepotism, Trump uni, pervertedly walking in on Models getting changed at his beauty pageants,..... pick something that you genuinely think is bad, and the behaviour of a bad, not nice man. Then think about how your support of him, facilitates that harm. How your support of him enables that harm. Think about how that therefore makes you complicit in that harm.

Now very specifically, explain to me how you maintain your own self image as that of a nice person.

Politicians are scumbags, Trump is certainly one as well. We'll go through your little exercise:

child separation in detention camps - Was going on long before Trump got into office. DCFS and a dysfunctional family law system were doing this for decades before Trump was ever elected President.

homosexual rights roll backs - I'm not aware of a specific example of this. If you are talking about putting a halt to LGBT as a protected class, there are too many protected classes already. I was once a manager at Cisco Systems, managing 18 people at the time of a layoff. I had to rank all 18 of my direct reports from top to bottom, and I asked my manager if I could tell the top-ranked employees they had nothing to worry about. He told me to do that. Then when the layoff list came back from HR, many of the people I had told they had nothing to worry about were on the layoff list. Long story, but it turned out there were not enough white and Asian males under the age of 40 on the layoff list, so they were added because women, non-Asian minorities, and employees over 40 were all protected.

molestation and misogynistic abuse - Have you ever heard of Fiddle and Faddle, Mary Joe Kopechne, Juanita Broaddrick. Paula Jones, Kathleen Willey. Politicians are scumbags. Why do you get all spun up over Trump, but not JFK, Ted Kennedy, or Bill Clinton? I'd put Trump in about the same moral class as those other three.

Nepotism - Are you aware of what goes on in Democratic controlled cities like Chicago, IL?

Pervertedly walking in on Models getting changed at his beauty pageants - I'd put this on the same level as putting a cigar in the vagina of a summer intern in the Oval office.

On the other hand, Jimmy Carter was a fine decent human being, but he was a complete disaster as President. If I had to choose between a competent scumbag like Bill Clinton or Donald Trump vs. an incompetent morally pure individual like Carter, I'll take the competent scumbag.

0

Hi, Line, and welcome to the website,

Whenever I encounter a Trump supporter on this website, I just go to their profile and click the "block" button, found on the right side of the page.

This website has a bit of a learning curve so here is some information that might be helpful.

You earn website points, and help other members get to know you better, when you write an informational profile that includes your hobbies and interests, and answer all the profile questions, since that's the first place many people look when they see a new member.

Also, the website uses your profile to find member matches, so the more details you include, the better the match.

Then you make comments and write your own posts to earn more points and privileges; for instance, at level two you can private email people. You get different perks with each level, and when you reach level eight you get an agnostic T-shirt.

To find members near you, click on the "Meet" button at the top of the page, then on "Members," and enter your preferred search parameters.
Or click on the "About" button at the top of the page to find links to FAQ or the website tutorial.
Click on the 'Meet" button to find member matches

Levels are mostly a way to help identify and reward those who contribute to the growth of the community. The website also gives more access and benefits depending on level.[agnostic.com]

Perks for each level: [agnostic.com]

Links to FAQ: [agnostic.com],
and a website tutorial: [agnostic.com]

Thank you. Although I don’t wish to block anyone. I’m a passionate advicate of free speech, no matter how much I may disagree with the content. I’ll only use the block facility if I encounter rudeness.

@Linecaughtonly I strongly agree with you. I've blocked two people on FB who stalked me IRL, no blocks here so far and I doubt I ever will.

I have a few friends, including three educated women who are Trump supporters. I haven't touched base with one of those women in over a year, so I'm not sure how she feels about most of his administration.

@educatedredneck That's because you're blind to your male privilege. The moment some guy becomes lewd, crude, or rude, I hit the "block" button, to remove that person from any possible dating or friendship consideration. I even block men I see being rude to other women. I don't want to know them.

@birdingnut and you're making assumptions about me. If you interpret that as being rude so be it, but I didn't say anything about blocking people for rudeness or especially lewdness.

I'd consider blocking someone who was lewd to me. One of the two I've blocked is a gay man who stalked me for a long time. I didn't even know it was him sending me porn for over 2 years. A few people have hit on me, one woman even sent me a boob shot but chilled when I didn't flirt back so I didn't block her. Consistent lewdness would definitely be consideration for blocking.

I didn't say anything about your decisions to block people, my comment was aimed at linecaughtonly which is why I tagged him.

2

I asked a similar question in another forum, in which I KNEW there were some outright supporters. Crickets. Wasn't bashing or hinting that others bash. I genuinely wanted to understand the phenomenon. Thankfully, Sam Harris was able to use much more influence and resources to accomplish just that. His interview with Scott Adam's, creator of Dilbert, accomplished that in a lengthy interview. Here's a condensed version of the interview: [theatlantic.com]

Frustratingly, I don’t think Sam Harris got any kind of insightful response from Adams there. In a nutshell, it seems to me that ultimately Harris got Adams to concede as far as “yeh,..... I know he’s a dick, but he gets stuff done that I want done”.

My question above, re-framed for Adams in the context of Harris’s debate would be; “we agree that his not being a nice person causes suffering and hurt as an accepted part of his methodology. So as a supporter, indeed advocate and fascilitator of that method, and therefore of that suffering and harm, do you feel a conflict internally that makes you question whether you are a nice person or not?”

That’s what I’m askimg here. I’m not interested in trump, I’m intetested in the Trump supporter’s view of themself.

Frustratingly, I don’t think Sam Harris got any kind of insightful response from Adams there. In a nutshell, it seems to me that ultimately Harris got Adams to concede as far as “yeh,..... I know he’s a dick, but he gets stuff done that I want done”.

My question above, re-framed for Adams in the context of Harris’s debate would be; “we agree that his not being a nice person causes suffering and hurt as an accepted part of his methodology. So as a supporter, indeed advocate and fascilitator of that method, and therefore of that suffering and harm, do you feel a conflict internally that makes you question whether you are a nice person or not?”

That’s what I’m askimg here. I’m not interested in trump, I’m intetested in the Trump supporter’s view of themself.

2

Thank you by the way for asking directly as opposed to bashing like a good majority on this site are prone to doing. Not all of us conservative-leaning individuals are rotten people as some would believe, nor do we worship money as a god.

4

For me, it is not about Trump being a nice person that I am concerned about, I care about the type of job he has been doing. For what it's worth, I don't think there are alot of folks out there who are specifically nice, but rather a majority of human beings are average in nature, meaning on most days people can and have a mixture of feelings which affects their current mood. Getting back to the original topic now, since Trump's time in office I have observed at least some situations improving gradually in this country. Unemployment rate is going down, more open communication has been established with North Korea than any other President in recent times has accomplished, interest rates are going up gradually, enhanced border security just to name a few things that have improved since the last Admin. I don't particularly judge a politician based on his/her attitude, but rather on performance, and I find myself in agreement with most of his policies to date. I hope that answered your question.

Hi Spike! Thanks for your response. My question wasn’t asking about what anyone thinks of Trump though, his political efficacy or indeed whether he is nice or not. I’m interested in you,.... and how you square your support of him, his policies and words with your notion of yourself as ‘nice’.

Whilst it’s easy to brand others as ‘not nice’, I think we all like to think of ourselves as ‘nice’ people. If you support, aid, or encourage someone who’s actions actively hurt others, or who’s actions are indeed ‘not nice’ it seems to me that you become complicit in those actions, complicit in that hurt. My interest is in how you rationalise that in your own mind so as to maintain your own nice self image.

Again, I am aware of the leading nature of my question, but I feel that it is a fair question nontheless.

@Linecaughtonly Your question was indeed a fair one. In all fairness, I do not nor ever have for the most part considered myself to be a nice person. It would be relatively safe to say that most human beings would generally like to consider themselves good, and I contend that is not usually the case but rather we have a mixture of good and evil tendencies, some may have more of the good in them while others no so good. I try my best to be a positive force in society, but I have my drawbacks just like anyone else, plenty of them. For instance- I give to those in more need than myself when it's financially possible for me to do so, I would lend a hand to those who could use some help, I could go on but I think you get the idea. On the flip side, I am also prone to what some would consider negative attributes such as I support a capitalist society, I do not care to spare feelings, and I own guns. Summed up, I am neither a nice good or evil person, but a mixture of every trait. While having some obvious negative character traits, I could find some good in Trump as well, so it is not difficult for me to identify with such a man as we share some of the same traits. Again, I contend that a good majority of human beings are not exactly nice, as every human possesses the ability to be both good and evil, but equally so not many out there are or would be willing to acknowledge that much let alone accept it. To answer your question, no, I am not a nice person, not in the least. I do however try to be fair with everyone and make an attempt to understand other point of views, and thus I strike a balance between good and evil.

1

Because they think that everybody is NICE if they have money, no matter how they conduct themselves.

I think that’s unfair. I’ve not posted my question to just bash em, and I’m hoping to keep the thread fair and evidence based. But quite specifically I’ve asked about their own ‘self image’, because that, to me is an interesting place where significant cognitive dissonance must be hiding.

@Linecaughtonly Ok, I do understand what you are asking for but what I have said is what I have experienced. Greed and money is kind in their world.

@Jolanta with the greatest of respect, and accepting that you and I are essentially on the same side of this fence, when you base an opinion upon your subjective ‘own experience’, you are almost certain to be objectively wrong.

Just because that dog is shaggy, it doesn’t mean that all dogs are shaggy,..... or even that shagginess is purely a dog thing!

But more than that,...... even if you’re right, & all Trump supporters worship at the greed alter,,..... if they don’t perceive themselves as such, then all you do by labelling them so is start a fruitless argument.

3

This should be good.

2

I'm not a Trump guy but I think I can answer your question. They don't care if you think they are nice. Appeals to emotion, virtue signaling, and claiming moral superiority are tactics of the left.

I’m actually specifically interested in their own image of themselves. Not how they feel about how others view them. 🙂

I’m assuming that they do of course perceive themselves as ‘nice’, and so my question is about how they square that belief with their support of Trump and his policies.

@Linecaughtonly I can tag this in the conservative group if you want.

@TheInterlooper go for it! Thanks fir that, I’m new here so still learning my way around 🙂

Thanks 🙂

Ok, I'll give it a shot.
I don't perceive of myself as a "nice" person. And I could care less if people think I'm 'nice' or not. I don't really want a "nice" person as POTUS. I want a Charismatic Tribal Leader. An Alpha Male. If he's an assh×le, that's ok.

@bigpawbullets A big, fat YEP to that.

@Captain_Feelgood !
Might be time to spool up the turbines, test fire the guns....

@bigpawbullets & captain feelgood,..... ha ha, well thanks for your honesty and your being the first to actually have a crack at an answer!! 🙂

So what about when his assholery causes harm to people & hurts people?

Pick something that he’s done that’s hurt or harmed people. Child refugees taken away from parents, gay rights roll backs, misogynistic abuse, physically and mentally, women’s rights to abortions.... Trump uni,...... pervertedly and repeatedly walking into the changing rooms to watch his beauty pageant Models changing,..... or anything you like. There must be something in there that you don’t like, that you perceive as ‘bad’. Now genuinely think about how your support of him facilitates that harm. Think about your support of him making you complicit therefore, in harming those people.

For me, the idea of being complicit in harming others is a bad thing,...... there would come a point where I just didn’t like myself for my part in that harm. I’m genuinely interested in understanding why that doesn’t happen for you.

(I realise of course that I just politely suggested you were a bad person,...... you got me halfway there with admitting to not being ‘nice’,.... but feel free to tell me where my maths went wrong). 🙂

@Linecaughtonly
"Causes harm and hurts people".
"Being complicit in harming people"

Well, I'd have to say that in my experience, regardless of what a country does, someone wins and someone loses. You cannot enforce laws and not "hurt" the lawbreaker. So far, I'm in agreement with President Trump's actions and support the rationality for implementing them. No decision or action by any President is ever supported by everyone. I voted for President Trump. I've no problem being identified as "complicit" in his policies. But then, I don't "self-identify" as a nice guy.

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