@FortyTwo My first sentence is that it should just be universally legal. However, allowing the FDA to allow it to be sold as a medication opens a door that I think we need to keep closed. Allowing homeopathic "medicines" to be sold as real medicine is a travesty that we need to fight against. As it exists burden of proof for medication is identification of the active ingredients and the proper dosing of those ingredients. That is a proper intellectual position.

Your clear statement that it is almost impossible to OD on means that it should be treated the same as green tea and turmeric. If we moved to the position that that was how we treated this plant, most doctors wouldn't have an issue suggesting it to the patient and the patient wouldn't need the doctor's approval anyway. I think "medicinal marijuana" is a position that provides more good for more people than the status quo, but at a great cost and is not the intellectually defensible position.

The drug war is atrocious. I am a serious fan of the band 311 and although I don't use marijuana, I am exposed to it often and the over regulation is seriously contemptible. But my position is a result having worked in a pharmacy and seeing what people think is medicine and what is not and therefore developing an appreciation for our regulation of the title "medicine".

@FortyTwo I only looked into this briefly but I did not have confidence in the standardization of product to determine dosing with CBD. That makes presription fairly impossible as you can not determine the dose. Is that what you are talking about?

@FortyTwo I agree that it should not be Schedule 1 and NEVER should have been, I am just also opposed to letting it into any other category. If you want to classify THC, CBD and other cannabinoids as a lower classification of medication, I don't see a problem with that at all, especially considering the synthetic was dowgraded from a C2 to a C3 in 1999 and has been legal since 1985.

@FortyTwo You are putting a lot of words in my mouth and second guessing me. I know you can get labeled packages but I am not sure how reliable that labeling is. I do not know the system that sets these standards and if it can be trusted. When you prescribe a medication you are responsible and though I am not opposed to marijuana there are side effects to every medication and unknowns to consider. A prescriber is held responsible.

@DJVJ311 marijuana is a herbal medicine. Homeopathy and homeopathic remedies is a system of treatment.Some of our oldest medicines used in standard western medicine are plant derived. Digitalis is one. Taxol is a newer chemotherapeutic agent isolated I believe from the yew. Those are just two quick references. Scientists are always looking to isolate compounds from nature to use in the pharmaceutical industry. I would say that is a standard practice

@btroje I said I have no problem with the isolated compounds being properly dosed and treated as drugs. I am saying the plant is not a drug and the FDA/DEA should not treat it as such. The Coca plant is illegal. Cocaine is legal(Class 2 Narcotic). Coca is not a drug, cocaine is. Marijuana should not be a drug, THC and CBD can be and a synthetic THC has been for 30+years. My position is based on evidence necessary for drug classification requiring proper dosage.

Homeopathy is a debunked nonscientific "theory" that "like treats like" because water molecules "remember" how to treat things and where the less of an active ingredient is deemed more potent. It was better than blood letting and boring into people's skulls, so it was the best "medicine" at the time, but it has no credible evidence or theory of action.

@DJVJ311 I only stated a general idea about homeopathy because your use of the word does not make sense, I was not discussing my support or lack thereof. Please read before scolding. If you were in medicine and not IT you would know that trying to isolate silver bullet compounds from plants has not been that effective especially if you have the chance to interview patients who are seeking relief and can give you their feed back rather than just read a book or paper. THe more I carefully read on this board the more I see people acting like experts outside their fields, not using rational thinking and mostly spouting off opinions. If a plant based medicine has been effective it is because of the sum of the complex chemistry in that plant and not an isolated compound. Vitamin A iuse in relation to cardiac disease might be something to read about

@btroje I am not an expert in the chemistry or medicine directly, but I do have a larger than average exposure to the field and an understanding of the regulatory system behind it. I spent 5+ years as a certified pharmacy technician(retail, lead technician) and have done a little consulting with several PBMs and startups(software development, compliance and auditing) since I have family connections throughout managed care pharmacy. My opinion is solely based on the desire to keep our regulatory system and pharmacological field grounded in pure evidence. Also, this is not a presidential council where people should be chosen based on their expertise, but a public forum for discussion and the refinement of ideas.

I apologize if you feel I was scolding you about homeopathy, but I was simply stating the facts as they exist. Homeopathy is casually injected into conversations because people only ever get a lightweight cursory idea of what it's about and generally defining it is an effective way of removing it from otherwise intellectual conversation. It is literal placebo. I never claimed the chemicals in marijuana were homeopathy, but the strict regulation of dosing and evidence based results should not be loosened because of things like homeopathy.

I am not saying it is easy to isolate silver bullet compounds. I am saying that is the basis of pharmacology and should remain so. There is no other plant that is prescribed. There are plants that doctors recommend all the time, like plants high in fiber and high in certain vitamins. I am also not saying that the current stance that marijuana is illegal is right or defensible on any grounds or that it is beneficial to the people at large.

Since I wrote this - just this morning the stats from L.A. came in, and the number of impaired drivers has doubled.

High drivers aren't as bad as drunk though - nowhere near, atleast until they're gotten like...solar system high lol. Can't remember terms and whatnot of what exactly I read, it was a while ago and would have no idea how to find it as I'm not in the habit of bookmarking or saving things. I should really do that...and I'm not really excusing it, just putting it out there.

they've*

@Neraven Perhaps - though it won't matter if one crashes into you - will it ? I've known some pretty spaced out smokers. They were only good for lying around and eating. ha

@evergreen True enough. I know someone whos done it for about 30 years and another whos done it for atleast...ten years, prolly more around 15. You can barely tell the difference between when they do and dont, and theyre very competent drivers.
Oh and fun fact, people get slightly better at driving around .02 percent bac. Which is why ive noticed when im a little tipsy i can be a LOT better at video games and jigsaw puzzles lol.

I oppose medicinal for other reasons, but from my understanding the various strains they're developing now(at least the legitimate medical suppliers) are in response to the research to get a better balance of chemicals for different treatments.

@DJVJ311 @FortyTwo it's been a while since I looked into it, but this sounds like good news to me. I'm glad that it's being addressed because I'm all for a healthy way of using pot, especially if it means medicine can be fun for patients. I know for me I dealt with severe anxiety lasting days after use so I stopped playing with it but if it can work safely for others and not cause harm to society, smoke away.

Hmmm......................I can't help but think that habitual use played a part (no matter how small) in two of my brothers dropping out of mainstream society. One deals with chronic pain from gout; the other always thought he'd get rich by it. I worry what will become of their lives when they are old and have no insurance, pension, 401, SS or Medicare (assuming the the programs will still be solvent in 20-30 years).

I just don't think that would be the case if they were not habitual users. I could be wrong.

@BlueWave I grew up with smokers who became doctors, professional people who had challenging, demanding careers.i just don't think driven people are sidetracked by marijuana. I do know a couple of friends who were sabotaged by liquor addictions.

The worst drawback I have seen. Is a 40 year old man living in his Mother's basement. When he has a party of friends over. It takes a whole team to be able to order a pizza, then they fight over the last pizza.

What.

They are trying somehow.
I don't know if the full get it through.
Something t o do with the feds still making it illegal ???
There are so few ways to qualify for it anyway..

Yeah so? Get rid of all guns and we'll all be much safer.

Have you thought about how hugely beneficial it is and can be to other people though? Or how it can produce tax revenue and save money just by being decriminalized?

@Neraven I believe that there is merit in controlled medicinal use of marijuana in cases it can help pain. As far as tax revenue, that is blood money, just like revenue from cigarette sales and alcohol sales. We do not need another escape mechanism.

It can be very subjective. I feel the same as I do about abortions-don't like it, don't get one.

A lot better than alcohol and cigarettes I'd venture to say lol. There's all the bad things that come with just smoking, but there are far less carcinogens and fake chemicals and preservatives and all that like what's put into cigarettes. And I feel like I don't have to even explain how it's better than alcohol xD

Having grown a lot of my own over the years, I am against taxation. If I can grow my own veggies, why can't I grow my own pot?

Yeah,I tried to smoke pot while was freezing to death too, but couldn't get that fatty lit cuz I was shaking too much!

Well the "because" reasons can be perfectly legitimate, too. It can make you (sometimes a lot) more creative, so it's certainly nice to write/colour/draw/whatever else on it. People tend to open up more, look at the deeper meanings in things and really appreciate their senses. It can help you to get to sleep, too, and sleep problems often aren't necessarily severe enough to warrant some sort of diagnosis by the average therapist or psychiatrist. Also, it was called a "peace pipe" by the Native Americans for a reason

Man....i am so sorry about all that. I wish you so much luck.

maybe it made me stronger? But i do know i look and react to the common world way differently now.

Thanks

Except our criminal capitalist government wants a piece, and with that, comes Monsanto.

I hear you.

I'm very satisfied with my state and liberal MJ and CBD laws.

Alrighty...

Yeah!

I see its needed..

around 3 % of the population are VERY allergic to massive quantities of marijuana. Full psychosis is the result . BUT any one can be tested for the genome "com-t" that is the precursor. Just stop ruining our lives with your idiot laws is all I have to say [ on this issue]

Yup, caffeine can be pretty bad, and is definitely addictive. Nicotine is actually not that bad in and of itself and has some useful properties, but cigarettes are horrendously addicting (purposefully made that way by scientists that the companies hired because they started losing lots of business when people realized smoking was actually not healthy at all, if you didn't know) and they're legal. Alcohol is extremely addictive too, and can ruin just about everything in your body, if you have the propensity towards addiction, or specifically alcoholism. Energy drinks are awful for you as well xD

Thanks

Great news, my kind of party, grow them 25 feet tall.

Cool... you talk about a new hobby. It would be a hobby forum. Hows your plants doing. Mine at 30 feet tall now...lol

I was born and raised here in California, and I honestly do not recall hearing any widespread sentiment that driving under the influence of cannabis is good. In fact, that was the one sticking point I had when it came to legalization.

However, the bare fact is/was that regardless, legal or illegal, people are and were going to be driving after using (even while), just as with alcohol.

As far as I know, there has been no conclusive data yet produced clearly showing an increase in vehicle accidents solely attributable to cannabis use. I would be more than willing to rethink the whole thing should reliable data from an unbiased source say otherwise.

BTW, I have used cannabis intermittently for over 5 decades, and I do agree that no one should drive high (or drunk, of course).