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Climate change

Anyone else out there believe in climate change? Yesterday it was 58 degrees in my town. Tonight it is God knows what below zero, but my hands froze just walking out to my car. I'm out here freezing my ass off now. I believe in climate change so it shocks me to hear arguments against it's existence. Am I alone in this way of thinking?

Sadoi 7 Jan 13

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0

Now that our government is not funding global warming research as much their are more articles appearing about CO2 not causing global warming. Most of the things I post about CO2 are from people that are NOT PAID by oil companies. This is a search I did and there seems to be more people now that are supporting CO2 does not cause global warming. They have a diversified view about climate change and think it's time we look at both sides and do more research if you believe some of these people. All the effort going into reducing CO2 output is in vain because it will not reduce global warming more than a few tenths of a degree.

(youtube CO2 does not cause global warming) this is what I use to get these websites in my search.

This will bring up some interesting YouTube videos that will try to explain why CO2 does not cause global or or very little global warming, Climate change.

dc65 Level 7 Mar 28, 2018
0

Keep a open mind
Dr. Judith Curry Video Compilation - Climate Change Truth

Scientists Patrick Moore and Judith Curry on Climate Change

dc65 Level 7 Mar 26, 2018
0

"CLIMATE" is the combination of the average temperature, humidity, wind pressure, and precipitation in a place and at a specific time of year over a period of about thirty years.

"WEATHER" is what's happening with all of those factors right now, or in the upcoming, predictable future (10 day forecast! ha). Here in Boston the weather has been pretty inconsistent too, but that's not really a sign of climate change...

This is what we're working on right now in my sixth grade science classes, and even my pre-teen students are confused about people who don't "believe" in climate change, based solely on scientific facts... global warming, for example? The sun sends radiant heat toward the earth, and whatever isn't absorbed into the surface is reflected back into space, that's how heat from the sun works, people have no input there... however, because of all of the increased gases present in our atmosphere (carbon dioxide, methane, etc.) due to human activity and the burning of fossil fuels, the reflected heat is being trapped in the atmosphere and is warming the gases more than ever before, therefore warming the Earth. Like, how can anyone say that's not a real thing? 🙂

It was amusing this past week in class to talk about how cow burps and farts are harming the planet, especially since, same as you said from wherever you live, the temperature has fluctuated from zero degrees to above 40 this month so far alone! 🙂

0

Climate change is real, the climate changes, solar output, volcanoes all affect our climate. So it seems obvious that the changes man has made will affect it also. Back in the 70 I learned about greenhouse gasses and the predictions. This hypotheses seems to be holding true. That is why I take my coffee in insulated flasks, the insulation keeps the heat in, it works. The climate is quite complex, heat causes air to rise somewhere, it cools up there and comes down somewhere. We suffer from cyclones, they are dependent on warm oceans, now our cyclones form and travel further south and cyclone season lasts longer.

2

I would point out that several people hear are using local examples of their weather in support of climate change and, well, it doesn't work that way. One needs to study the effects over decades, not days, to scientifically comment on climate change.

Another aspect is that belief in "climate change" is not one question but several:

  • Is the climate changing?

  • If it is changing, is it man-made?

  • If it is changing and man-made, is it reversible?

Science, by and large, answers yes to the first two questions and still debates the last question. My problem with my beliefs is that the science behind this complex, climate is NOT well understood such that even without man made effects we could predict long term changes with any accuracy, a lot of the results rely on simulation which are only as effective as the science and data input into them, and unless you are DEEP DEEP DEEP in the field all but impossible to fully put in perspective and understand why a person believes things will change one way or anthoer. In this case, there is a very real element of "faith" in aligning your belief with science as to the first two questions and answering the third: faith that the science is adequate to the question, faith that the science is correctly applied to the question, faith that the science is done right.

However, it is fair to be skeptical of science and thus I don't begrudge people who answer differently to all three questions. To not take their skepticism at face value, to simply accept that since several scientist say it's so it must be so, is the bandwagon fallacy and scientism.

I hear ya. In my case, my opinion is based on decades worth of data and studies. In my undergrad years, I was a volcanology major at one time, but then I switched to geology double major with psychology so I also look at it slightly influenced by my background in the geological sciences as well. Clearly I do not rely fully upon geological sciences either. Even still, your are correct, it is difficult to gauge, but in my opinion I believe humans are merely speeding up what, perhaps, nature would otherwise do all of its own accord.

@Sadoi CO2 data in the 1800s it was .003% of the atmosphere today it is .0041% of the atmosphere there is an increase of only .0011% of the atmosphere that's very tiny tiny tiny increase which I believe is insignificant at this point in time. The above figures can vary a little bit depending on what sources you use to verify the accuracy.
What is your belief about CO2 based on the above figures?

@TheMiddleWay CO2 data in the 1800s it was .003% of the atmosphere today it is .0041% of the atmosphere there is an increase of only .0011% of the atmosphere that's very tiny tiny tiny increase which I believe is insignificant at this point in time. The above figures can vary a little bit depending on what sources you use to verify the accuracy.
What is your belief about CO2 based on the above figures?

@dc65

That's a 25% increase; hardly tiny or insignificant. 😉

@TheMiddleWay You're not interpreting what I wrote correctly we need to look at CO2 as part of the whole atmosphere (100000 ppm) the whole atmosphere equals 1 million parts

......Today................ 1800'............. increase
........410.... - .........300...... = .......110.........total increase
..100000 .......... 100000...........100000

..Today...............1800'................increase
......410..... - ........280...... = ........130.......total increase
..100000..........100000.............100000

This is the way I look at the increase which I believe is the correct way because if you take . .00001 and increase it 100% you get .00002 now I can say we had a 100% increase but still it's a very small amount you need to be more thorough looking at the other side and global warming the debate is not over yet. We need to do much more research on the problem.

@dc65

That 25% increase in CO2 lead correlates with a 1 degree increase in global temperatures.
Basic Greenhouse effect.
That again is not insignificant.

[bbc.co.uk]

@TheMiddleWay
Please study this and trying to explain to you that CO2 is a very small part of the atmosphere yes I agree it has increased 25% or more but it is not a big part of the atmosphere to start with we need to look at CO2 into real perspective related to the whole atmosphere please study my example below.

This is the way I look at the increase which I believe is the correct way because if you take . .00001 and increase it 100% you get .00002 now I can say we had a 100% increase but still it's a very small amount you need to be more thorough looking at the other side and global warming the debate is not over yet. We need to do much more research on the problem.

@dc65

"We need to do much more research on the problem."

Here is a list of research done on this subject.
Unless you can find fault with the majority of it, no more research needs done to show that that increase in CO2 is a factor in global warming.

So unless you can find fault with these studies, the time for debate is over and the time for action is now.

[history.aip.org]

@TheMiddleWay Yes I read all information before. I also read the information
from the people that don't believe CO2 was causing global
warming you need to look at their opinions and ideas.
Global warming climate change has become a religion. The
majority of the people are doing the same as religious people
are doing by believing in God or gods. Keep an open mind
and read some of the articles I posted or watch some of the
you tube movies I have posted so you understand both sides
of the problem. You can prove your point about anything
with information from the Internet. You can even find
you tube videos how to make a perpetual motion machine.
If that really work that would solve our energy problems.
And the global warming problem would be over. LOL

@dc65

And exactly as per your point, you can prove anything on the internet. That is why I rely on peer-reviewed articles (as listed on the link I provided) and not random youtube movies. 😉

(BTW: you've posted no articles)

@TheMiddleWay What do you think about Judith Curry's comments about academia and her position on climate change, global warming?

@dc65

I think she is one voice saying one thing when the majority of her colleagues say another.
In every science, every one, you can find singular voices that disagrees with the majority.

Me? I'll stick with majority opinion on this matter since I'm not a climate scientist myself.

@TheMiddleWay As they keep doing research eventually the correct answers will be found, I do believe in global warming, but I believe it's caused by land usage and the draining of water off the land for agricultural purposes. That has also change the color of the land to a darker color which absorbs more heat. Since water is the largest greenhouse gas and it operates in my latent heat range it can transport more heat to the high altitudes where it can escape to space. The water and water vapor will protect us from excessive temperatures. It is a proven fact that cities especially big ones have a higher temperature average. Nobody is going to give up using energy so we might as well learn to live with the changing climate that only makes sense.

@dc65

How do you know the correct answer hasn't already been found? 😉

@TheMiddleWay I do not know if what we are hearing about global warming or climate change is correct. I am agnostic about the whole global warming ,climate change situation. I rely a lot on my own knowledge and I feel many these scientists and so-called scientists that have no knowledge of climatology are not following the scientific method to prove they are correct. Judith Curry says her name is included in the list of 97% so you tell me what should we believe I've read 31,000 scientists believe as I do is that true? I do not know. If you look back in history how many times have the majority of people been wrong and the minority was correct. The majority thinks there is a God or gods, or (maybe we should start believing in God the majority does LOL) the majority thought the Earth was flat, majority thought the sun went around the Earth these are just the common examples that I can think of. If we researched this I'm sure we could find a lot more examples where the majority was wrong. Also I base a lot of my own knowledge of physics thermodynamics chemistry and refrigeration, I referred to latent heat of water which I don't believe is in the climate models. Water vapor is the only gas in the atmosphere that operates in the latent heat range. They eliminate water in the models that is well-known.
If you include water and water vapor in the models it would make all the other greenhouse gases insignificant,Also water vapor forms azeotropic blend, water carbon dioxide methane nitrogen oxides and other water soluble gases. That's what I believe, that's why I say we need more research done on this subject. Maybe we can talk on the telephone or Skype I like Skype because it gives you the ability to share your screen or video chat.

@dc65

I'm not a climatologist and from what I can tell neither are you. So it's hard for us to judge what "these scientists or so called scientists" do or not know about the subject.

Maybe they are wrong.
But maybe they are right.

But if the experts are wrong, since I'm not an expert, there is little chance of my understanding why they are wrong... same thing if they are right.

I just trust the majority in this case since, in science, if I were a betting man I'd bet on the majority, not the minority.

@TheMiddleWay Exactly that is why we need to do more research on the subject let the climatologists handle it and debated further and wait until the data release shows a trend a few degrees is natural variation. We will see if the climate trends lower in the next few years

I was watching nightly business report tonight and SUVs and big boats are selling very well the public is not interested in using less energy. The other night also RV industry is doing well which also use large amounts of fossil fuels, I know I have one.

I also have one electric vehicle. would I buy another one, no

@dc65

Regardless of research, we can all agree that using less fossil fuels, which are non-renewable, is a good thing.

@TheMiddleWay yes

1

Climate change is happening alright, the test done on the affect of carbon dioxide and methane has proven it beyond reasonable doubt. It's going to be very difficult to predict the exact affect it will have on weather systems but the trend of rapid global temperature rising is sure enough reason for action. What are you doing to reduce your carbon footprint?

Dav87 Level 6 Jan 13, 2018

Everything I can. I try to follow most of the rules. This is something so vast that it would serve better for me to privately message it to you. Unless that was a rhetorical...?

1

Climate change is real , I live in northern England and I a have a Foxglove in full bloom in my front garden. That is not right , I took the dog out the other day wearing a t shirt in January .

Yeah my friends in alaska sent me photos of patches of green on their yard and some small flowers they say typically only grow in early spring. Meanwhile, in michigan, we were buried in snow. go figure!

@Sadoi That is climate change which is normal. In early 1970 my garden was so wet I could not plan it until August and I was picking sweetcorn and brussels sprouts in December of that year because we had a very late frost. Climate has always changed its just being talked about more today. I live in Illinois and normally you plant a garden in late April

@Hellbent Yes also shorts & flip flops.

1

I hate cold weather. And I had lived in Germany so I had seen cold weather. Also been in Scandinavia in the Winter on a north atlantic cruise. Don't like cold weather. I believe in global warming and the changes it bring. But those believing in "overpopulation" won't mind when someone without resources freezes to death. May I one day be able to invite you to enjoy a 113 degrees Las Vegas my friend.

oh i am from california and my grandparents moved into the san joaquin valley and some summers it was hotter Than 113! lol! Funny, back in the day playground equipment was made of metal! Let me tell you how much fun it was to be the first idiot to go down the metal slide in the dead of summer! haha!

@Sadoi Do not remind me of my childhood in Puerto Rico and those slides, you could fry an egg and burn a pizza. But how often I have to hit the floor before I understood the concept of black ice!!!

2

My doors on my truck were frozen shut untill noon, and yesterrday it was 60 ° herr.
I do think fossil fuels are contributing t climate change, but even if they weren't, we changing our planet into a garbage dump., and polluting air and water .

Yeah last night I had to pull and pull on my car door until I dislodged it, but also fell flat on my ass in a pile of snow and ice. Woo hooo!! Froze my legs and my ass and my hips... but my hands were numb from the mere walk from my door To my car! My windows wouldnt roll down for about 20 mins either because they were frozen so I was sitting in my car smoking that poor thing out with the inability to roll my windows down. I turned up the heat and hoped i could blow it around. God. I refuse to smoke inside my house because of my children, so i venture out into the cold to smoke. Plus, I volunteered to pick some friends up last night after work because it was way too cold for them to walk or whatnot. I won't have my friends freezing to death on a 10 min walk to their homes. no sir'ree bob! And i agree with your assertations my friend. 🙂

1

[climate.nasa.gov]

No there is scientific agreement. I believe that.

Mmm hmm! I've actually read that study you posted. 🙂

@Sadoi what do you believe?

3

Not only do I believe, but I have a personal relationship with Climate Change... oh wait

skado Level 8 Jan 13, 2018

Hey, is climate change one of your many bedfellows, sir?? haha

2

To me there are many unanswered questions and factors not included in the equation.

Like...? Do share... this is a judgement free climate... although it may be a bit balmy from all this GLOBAL WAARMIINNG!!!!!! (hahaha)

@Sadoi will tomorrow have 6 year old monkeys th a will be dad I am hungry in the morning got to get my 4 hours in.

@Sadoi The earth goes through cycles when it ellipses around the sun it is at times further away this happens for many reason alignments of the other planets having a gravitational effect on our planet, the sun creates electromagnetic pulses we are protected from the magnetosphere if those pulses are pulses are attracting or repelling at times is undeterminable. Those are just a few of the space reasons there are many more. Now we get to earth's surface the volcanoes have been more active in the last 20-30 years not only do they spay poison gases into the atmosphere but also change the dichotomy of the earth's mantels. Ultimate altering the lay of the land. Next the biological factor has to come into play. Cattle spewing methane into the ozone via flatulence. Is that really a factor? The 200 years that fossil fuel had been going into the atmosphere is that any worse than say a monster volcano erupting? The concerns that should be paid attention to is ocean pollution. In the gulf of Mexico there are section of the ocean that are dead because the fertilizer has killed the sealife.All of this being said how is it any different than in the past the answer is not very the factors have been around 10`s of millions of years.

@Sadoi Keep a open mind
Dr. Judith Curry Video Compilation - Climate Change Truth

3

I do believe something is not right...

PS: @Sadoi by the way your last profile pic was cool... 🙂 where did you get the 'bindi'

@Srijith I have dated a few Indian men in my time... 😉 I tend to like Indian men. hee

indeed something isn't right here...

@Sadoi 🙂

@Srijith Yes I read all information before. I also read the information
from the people that don't believe CO2 was causing global
warming you need to look at their opinions and ideas.
Global warming climate change has become a religion. The
majority of the people are doing the same as religious people
are doing by believing in God or gods. Keep an open mind
and read some of the articles I posted or watch some of the
you tube movies I have posted so you understand both sides
of the problem. You can prove your point about anything
with information from the Internet. You can even find
you tube videos how to make a perpetual motion machine.
If that really work that would solve our energy problems.
And the global warming problem would be over. LOL

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