@JackPedigo -- @Benmonk knows that. He was drawing a hypothetical simile that was pretty well thought out and pointed.

I have worked and lived in Germany as well and understand what you are saying. Just remember that Benmonk was not making a commentary on Germany, but on the reasoning behind the memorials in the southern United States.

I could not agree with you more. Had lived in Germany, visited Haifa, Israel while in the military in the pre-liberty briefing they told us. "Do not go to the arab ghetto. If something happen in any part of the world and the military police goes down to pick up the "usual suspects" you won't have time to claim to be an american citizen. You will be hurt prior to that." Israel want to keep the issue in the back of our minds while they do atrocities in the arab world. There is no more nazi to hunt for but they want more Palestine land... because jahve wills it?

@evidentialist Thank you!

@evidentialist Where did you live? I understand and support the comment but was trying to add another dimension. Another fact is that some things that are part of the culture can become sore points for others. I remember criticisms over the German National Anthem 'Deutschland Uber Alles" Some saw that as arrogance. Word and symbol interpretation can be tricky.

@GipsyOfNewSpain I could see this but did not know it was overt as you say. I made a comment to one of the editoralists in the Humanist magazine. I mentioned how Israel was still "licking their wounds" for the whole world to see and take pity on them. She got mad and told me to get out of her life.

@JackPedigo To them is their way or no way. Never met a jewish that went in the other direction. I recognize it is impossible because of the history as we know it and we are reminded Daily still. I look for the day when they no longer be the only choice for an example.

@GipsyOfNewSpain I had a very good friend named Bob Feldman. He put together group trips to different parks in the state. Once I was helping him make some spaghetti sauce for the group. He had 2 big pots going one vegetarian and one with mixed ground meats including pork. I asked him if he was going to eat the vegetarian and he said no. With all that is going on in Israel he is ashamed to be Jewish. 'Cultural Judaism' is considered one of the largest secular groups in the world. I really believe that people do not always identify with their government policies, hmm sounds familiar.

@JackPedigo Yep and good for Bob. But you don't know what Bob doing when he is among his homeboys. Chameleons ability is among most of us.

@GipsyOfNewSpain I know Bob well and he has no real Jewish friends. We were members of a group The "Mountaineers" the 2nd largest outdoor and environmental group in the country. He was and as far as I know still is, very active.
I really believe people all over the world are all the same. Sure there are some strong tribal allegiances but many overcome these instincts. Look at all of us, overcoming the Christian tribe!

@JackPedigo Well said.

The Serbs. The Kurds. Etc..........

and the Roma.

@evidentialist Oh yeah, there was so much extermination done in the name of god on those countries and many others. And there the christians are the bad guys. But seldom is mentioned... there is a movie "The savior" with Dennis Quaid. great movie.

I think the German example is more pertinent because it is the holocaust of our time, plus, it was carried out in a relatively short time with modern industrial methods. All are horrible, but the efficiency of modern methods employed to round up, ship, exterminate, and dispose of victims is a warning to modern "civilized" societies. The Red Chinese, Mao, is estimated to have killed 75 million of his people, after Hitler, but that is seldom noted either.

@Benmonk Do not forget of the russian purged by stalin. But somebody brought up how the jewish do not allow the world to move on. Always have to bring it up as if they were the only martyrs in the 20th century. I know of the things jewish has done and still do in the middle east. Specially in Palestine how they run a terror agenda with the excuse of the holocaust. More Africans had died in this century than in the "holocaust". We need to leave it behind and move on. Been more than 60 years. African genocide is happening now in several countries. I believe in now a lot.

@GipsyOfNewSpain i think another reason the Jewish holocaust has become a touchstone is because it is the only one I can think of that was stopped by outside forces. It's easier to remember when you did the right thing.

That idea is flat wrong and promoted by those trying to convince others their cause as just. In actuality it was the South that sought to take away right of newly emerging states. The North bent over backwards for the South in order to avoid a war, which was started by the South. Every credible historian says the war was about slavery, period.

when this issue first came up there were a number of graphs showing peaks in the erection of these kinds of monuments were during periods or potential racial advancement

I've said before that we can keep them up if they put the word "LOSER" across the front of them, to put them into context. But really, yes, you are correct...

The US is still in complete denial about its systemic racism. IMHO every one of us needs to face this, to look in the mirror.

@WizardBill That is true. I have three friends, all white, who have expressed bigotry or racism towards blacks. Two of them are pretty smart, too, and they are all decent people. I would say that racism, especially towards blacks, is unfortunately alive and well. It's not as prevalent as it used to be, but it is still there.

@WizardBill Education and normative laws not having an effect on their attitudes? Are you seeing a generational change in attitudes?

@MST3K Are you seeing racism in other forms? Prejudiced attitudes towards Poles, Jews, Hispanics? Are you seeing discrimination between the minority groups?

@chicagojcb I think the US did a lot of good work on racial equality laws etc. Perhaps it had started from a bad place and has still some way to go?

@WizardBill Thanks. I think to some extent it is cognitive dissonance. Same with why changing things in places like Afghanistan is a generational effort, not a one election trick.

@Treasurehunter Yes, I would agree with that. I didn't mean we've made NO progress. Only that there is still much to be done and imo the place for each of us to start is with ourselves.

Feel the same way. & I don't care what the apologists & re-writers of history want to claim, slavery was the cornerstone of the Secession, State's Rights was their right to keep slaves, primarily. Granted, there were other reasons, but they were secondary at best, & they not only brought their "real" guns to fight the issue, but their religious guns, too! So many bible passages promote or at least accept slavery.

@phxbillcee As far as I'm concerned, the Confederacy were nothing but traitors. Since when do losers get statues? Only in this country, I swear.

@KKGator The Arc De Triomphe Has all of Napoleons victories listed but oddly not Waterloo lol

I think it is a crime to publicly do a seig heil, or promote Hilter in Germany.

@silverotter11 You hit an important fact. I will make a comment on this.

@silverotter11 Well for a decorated corporal that couldn't be advanced. To be hired by the government to spy on a political party and him take over the party. He already was promoted. Still outrank trump.

I thought everyone knew that hitler is a forbidden subject in germany.

@silverotter11 It is indeed, as tourists sometimes discover! [independent.co.uk]

Thank you!!

@GipsyOfNewSpain i know it.

The over all group dynamic in Germany of go along to get along caused massive suffering. The confederate states wanted/needed slavery and the poor whites go along with keeping the people of color down because they may be poor white but there is still someone lower than them. trump, same thing, better not to poke the bear cause he will publicly trash you.

@MrLizard That is why. I look at our army as a Republican Army. Bingo!

The "why" doesn't matter at all. The Confederacy still lost and deserve absolutely no recognition whatsoever.

Granted, Lincoln & the North fought to preserve the Union, not to "Free the Slaves". But the South seceded & fought primarily to maintain slavery. At least tell the whole truth!

The Confederate Constitution includes statements like:

"No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed"

"The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired."

"In all such territory, the institution of negro slavery as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected by Congress, and by the territorial government: and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories, shall have the right to take to such territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the states or territories of the Confederate states"

I wonder why the south tried to secede.... What could it have been about?

I might need to brush up on my history, but the way I recall learning about it is that the first half-dozen or so states to secede were worried after Lincoln's election that they would lose their controlling interest in the federal government, particularly regarding the rights of slave owners, and especially because the north and all newly settled states west of the Mississippi had already abolished slavery and new states were forming as free states... so, they seceded, Lincoln started a war, and other southern states joined the Confederacy along the way (for a variety of different reasons). It WAS about slavery, but the cause of the war was more "Don't free our slaves!" from the south and not as much "Free the slaves!" from the north as people might mistakenly credit to Lincoln. Semantics.

And why did the south try to secede? Because the north was not returning run away slaves and thought the north was trying to get slavery abolished. Read South Carolina's justification for secession, its pretty explicit in stating that they believe that the northern states had a constitutional obligation to return slaves and to not bother the south about slavery. [avalon.law.yale.edu]

It may or may not have been the war to free the slaves initially from the north's perspective, but it was defiantly a war to keep slaves by the south. then it became a war to free the slaves as the north learned that declaring slaves free in the south was a way to hurt the south.

Yes, the Civil War was about slavery-- but not directly. Unfortunately-- people at the time didn't have the same moral conviction to free slaves. The belief that "Slavery was wrong" has been romanticized by Hollywood and our poor educational system. The TRUTH is that slavery gave the south a huge economic advantage. When people in the north had to "pay" their workers, it was much more cost effective to have slaves that you didn't have to give wages. As with all things-- Greed and money motivates humans to do horrible things. I like the original post and his comparison between Nazi Germany and the civil war. While someone else pointed out that they are tired of the Nazi's being used as the only historical bad guys...and there are other horrible historical comparisons that can be used...most people know what a Nazi is...you have to know your audience.

Yes

Yes it is. Should it have been illegal here?