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I can't seam to ignore religious comments

I would like to know how you deal with religious people when they try to make a case for believing in a god that clearly doesn't exist. Rather, is it better to just not indulge in that kind of conversation with them? I feel I'm doing a disservice to them and myself to abandon a conversation that may enlighten someone if only spoken to in the right way....

Reguladude 4 Jan 16
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2

I always think of a Psychologist I knew well who said "If the Church has you by the age of six - they have you for life.". She was talking about the Roman Catholic Church and was probably aware of many more. Basically if you are taught magical thinking - you may never be ready to be disillusioned. I would caution any willing to debate that it can get very ugly - so pick your battles. I had a great friend in College who loved to debate with me (He was a Born Again Christian) I think he appreciated knowing how people outside his group thought? But it's usually no where near that civil.

1

We can plant seeds. It is sad but we will seldom see those seeds grow and bear fruit. My total freedom from superstition came from something I had heard 10 years before.

2

Haha. Love this question. I have one woman who keeps telling me the Bible is proof. I tell her it was written by man. Not a god. She gets upset and I drop it. You can’t win. Their entire faith is based on believing something that doesn’t exist. You just end up being the kid that told the other kids Santa doesn’t exist.

1

Most religious people I meet don’t go that deep that fast. There seems enough wiggle room to either avoid or engage them.. So it’s likely your choice. Are you in a safe environment to engage them, or at work, or a public area that others wouldn’t care to witness. I’ve encountered them with bullhorns and body placards at train stations begging for confrontation, but usually know better…

If you enjoy taking them on (verbally 😉 ), I think you’re doing us all a favor! As I’ve been doing it for a lotta years.. I’d like to think I’ve made a difference. If they’re not worth your time or energy, just grin sincerely while shaking your head sideways and move on 🙂

Varn Level 8 Jan 16, 2018
4

Well, good luck on presenting your words in a way that the average Christian will take to heart! I find it most difficult and finally, after many, many years, I now give little feedback that has never gone anywhere to begin with. It is hard to reason with an Idealogy that has no basis in reason. Slowly, but surely, I love them where they are...and 'pass on by!'

3

Best to walk away and not waste time and energy.

It's rare that I ever disagree with your views on this site, and I don't really disagree with you here. It's true that in most cases it's a waste of time. It's just that in some rare cases you meet someone who is looking beyond their religion and a discussion can be interesting.

The best way...but what do you do when the person is a friend and she/he is a guest in your home? I told this friend to stop her blablabla or to leave my place. Her answer was "Is not blablaba but god's words." She didn't leave...I called the police and she was removed by the officers.

I just want to unpack what to me you're saying when you say "waste of time and energy". If it was a waste, then it would mean any efforts you put forth to engage the faithful, would be for naught - or that the person that says it is so far beneath you, that they're genuinely not worthy. It means that we live side by side with all religions, and they're all equally compatible with healthy, happy, examined lives. Can you imagine if parents all did this with their kids, or if teachers did this with their students? it's tantamount to giving up, because the reward is not worth seeking, or that potential receiver deserves their life of brainwashed misery, suicide bombing, seeking to outlaw homosexuality, and abortion, granting tax dollars toward faith healing institutions, and religious schools, and ignoring how they brainwash our children with their nonsense. Just how healthy is a society, on whole, that genuinely embraces superstition? Things can get worse if we ignore it.
If you're a person that values reason, evidence and a healthy level of skepticism, then you own and use a skill set that helps your journey through life with a lot less friction and genuine unhappiness. If you knew you could bestow this gift upon someone or keep it a secret, what would you do? If moral values affect how we interact with different people in our lives, wouldn't it be morally remiss to retain that skill set, because you think the other person doesn't deserve the same level of happiness you have? or that you feel living in a society that is full of people that genuinely believe they can heal their sick children by "the laying of hands" might be interesting and cool to see? I see it tantamount to the sin of omission. "you know what to say to make life less miserable for someone, perhaps many -- but refuse to say it, for fear of backlash, embarrassment, etc".
The question we have to ask ourselves, is the goal of a less superstitious, less dogmatically certain society genuinely worth any effort what so ever?

2

I find it disrespectful when others try to change my mind (without an explicit invitation to do so), so I don't do it to them--unless they've indicated that they're open to it.

Now, maybe you think that if someone starts in on the God stuff with you, they've just thrown down the debate gauntlet and opened themselves up for counter-arguments...and I'd forgive you for making that assumption. In my experience it seems that people are rarely (if ever) prepared to brace for a rhetorical backlash when they open such worm-cans--and usually react badly when I push back. If anything, I might say "Are you really sure you want to have this discussion now? Because I don't agree with you, and I'm prepared to state my case". Most likely I'll just shrug my way out of it, saying as little as possible. I find that people usually don't want to even discuss, let alone argue--they just want to pontificate.

Now, if you've tuned in carefully and are picking up signals that they are receptive to whatever you have to say, let 'er rip!

Stuff bothers me too but I've found that I get bothered worse when I speak up against it than when I just shut up and let them talk. YMMV.

@ForTheWin has a well thought-out position that is entirely opposite mine, discussed in another thread, and it's well worth a read.

Thanks for the reply. I genuinely enjoyed the read????

I'm open to changing my mind about whether or not engaging meaningful dialogue with the religiously dogmatic is worth it, or can't possibly work. I was religiously dogmatic for 45 years, and I was reasoned out of my belief, and I'm thankful to be liberated from it. I wasted a huge part of my life, and Sundays, Wednesday evenings, and thousands of dollars toward increasing the level of faith in communities. I fearlessly engaged with people. I find it impossible there were no atheists around to help me see the light. It hurts to think they thought I was not "worth" their effort to liberate me from that otherwise nonsensical and harmful way of life. I'm pleading with those who have this gift of reasonable skepticism, and evidence based reason to engage. Again, I'm open to counter arguments demonstrating how it's simply not worth it, or cannot possibly work. I believe in the power of minds to come together for the cause of real good in the world.

1

When my step daughter was young her Fundamentalist grandmother would tell everyone to have a blessed day. At 12 Corey realized how much this phrase pissed people off (even Christians). After that when ever someone annoyed her she would smile and say "You have a blessed day." She even said it to me once, I wanted to ground her. But, you are right you will never change a persons mind by disagreeing with them. But you might try "Have a blessed day" after making your point. It will probably piss them off, but they can't argue.

2

It becomes a teaching moment. Most Christians don't know much about the bible. So I drop something like, "I just had a hard time with things like ' did Jesus say all sins are forgiven, or blasphemy is an unforgivable sin, it couldn't be both'". I am not attacking them or their religion. I am simply "sharing" my difficulties with understanding the scripture. Wash,Rinse, repeat.

Very informative. I appreciate the reply.

4

My advice is, clarify in your own mind why you are not a believer; consider the reasons and think about them carefully; then consider all the counter arguments that religionists make, and why you don't accept them. When you do that, you can or should be in a position to respond to religionists views, and explain why you reject them. You can only make your own position as clear and logical as possible. The rest is up to them.

3

I’m in the same boat. I know how you feel, but sometime you just have to walk away. I know that’s harder said than done. I have to avoid some people cause they’ll drive me stupid when trying to convert me to believing in something that’s not real.

3

They don't bother me. Of course I got a minister older sister but I keep her at a distance and I treat her with the respect of being the elder. She Has Hierarchy and My Respect.

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