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The most unprogressive race.

I'm trying to get a deeper understanding as to why the Black race is the least progressive race. I thought tribulism and religion were the main reasons but maybe the're other factors. I need actual researched facts because I'm tired of my own race being in constant deniel.

Tendix 5 Jan 26
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0

I don't see it the same way you do. "Progressive" is a subjective term. I'll try to put it in terms other than race, if I may. Some people have natural aptitudes for certain things. A person gifted at artistry may not be good at sports, or may not do well at mathematics. Someone who can 'see' a shot in basketball or billiards and be able to execute those shots with precision may not have the slightest inclination as to how do do the algebra needed to describe those things mathemaically, because they cannot grasp the idea of a letter representing a number in an equation. Some people sit at a piano at the age of 3 and start a musical composition while others take singing lessons for years and can't carry a tune in a bucket.

Everyone has some sort of inate gifts, or lackings thereof. Each person is a unique combination of whatever gifts the genetic dice threw, and also a product of whatever effort they may have taken to enhance these gifts or overcome obstacles in their way in order to do something they enjoy but for which they have no natural aptitude. certainly societal, familial, and regional influences play a part as well.

So when I read "progressive" I have to ask myself what you mean by that. Progressive to whom? In relation to what? The music of African society is of the highest caliber. Most societies do 4:4 time, or 2:4 or some simple ratio of 4. African music follows beats to 5:7 or 3:11 times, far more complex ratios and, furthur, uses notes that aren't the typical octave scale common in western culture, but scales that are equally complex.

Just because African culture didn't invent the cotton gin doesn't mean they aren't talented mechanically. It means they weren't raising cotton and had no need to develop such a thing. And it certainly doesn't mean that no one among their people was capable of design. Look at the textiles (traditional ones, not today's items). Remember that Egyptians were black, and what they did. Keep in mind that sickle cell anemia is a desease that evolved because it gave resistance to maleria. What is beneficial to one situation may not be in another. Evolution isn't limited to biological endevors, there are societal and cultural evolutions as well, and black people hsve survived great upheavals that may have killed or subjegated their best mathematicians, potential scientists, etc., but maybe the best gift they had was the resilience and ability to carry one. Another scientist or mathematician will come along, in time.

It is completely true that European society tromped all over African society, and also that thus left it's mark on every continent today (native Americans suffered much the same, including slavery). And societies built on subjegation leave a legacy that is indeed difficult to overcome. And that African nations have not risen to a level of first world nations since then. But so what. There are individual people who's genetic heritage comes more directly from Africa who have done great things. Great orators like MLK and Obama, who know how to convey not just words but emotions and ideals. Great sportsmen like just about every player of any talent in American sports. Fantastic dancers and musicians.

These talents aren't progressive? If not, why not? Because they don't lift a nations GDP? Is that the only unit of worth? Are contributions in other areas of the human experience not also important? Important to whom? And by who's yardstick defining value? I suggest that perhaps the greatest treasures from Africa have not been exploited. They may have not yet even been born. Or perhaps simply not yet realized. And perhaps, also, you've overlooked some contributions as irrelevant, not considering what has been offered as anything of value. There is value in every person, and value in every people, in all cultures, on all continents. Don't limit that measure to just one kind of yardstick.

0

In my opinion Walter Williams has been brilliantly speaking & writing about this as an expert for decades. There are many excellent YouTube videos of him. His website is [econfaculty.gmu.edu]

1

Please read this book. It appears that many are focusing on personal facts and stuck on the illusion of truth. Facts on black people in America. "Troublesome Inheritance" facts on blacks across the world. And many other books that I will look into.

You are making those books a reference which has either been widely denounced by the scientific community or has been criticised for certain parts especially. I will not totally discard these books, however, as it gives a different and dissenting view. But, creating opinion on a subject based on just these books without reading the peer review of scientific books like the bell curve or criticism or denounce ment by the scientific community of the opinion books based on vague scientific evidence like troublesome inheritance is not what we call a scientific approach. However, you are entitled to your opinion.

This book has been discredited.

0

I just think its coincidence ie certain peoples happened on new ideas first may be due to the availability of more ideas or necessity. a man living in a warm country with water near him/her and food fairly close does not have the same struggles in life as say a human in a temperate or freezing environment. you take say twenty various plants and put them in different environments some will prosper over others and overwhelm them. put the same 20 in another environment and another plant will do better. dodos died out because they had no natural predators so lost any defence and flight. then along came man and they were gone yet a lot of birds do way better in the human environment. it's not your colour or creed that makes you more advanced but your surroundings.

0

This is troubling. I am confident that progress doesn't have a genetic component. It depends on your definition of progress. On one hand, you can ask why Cairo or Johannesburg isn't hosting a space program or you can marvel at the ingenuity of the Kalahari bushmen and their invention of curare.

0

Not sure what you mean by progressive. If you are speaking about the political current in America I think that there are many progressive Blacks. Nina Turner is a dynamo and Niko House, an independent journalist, is also very progressive. If you look at the numbers, you will see there are a whole lot of non-progressive whites out there. I think that lack of education-by design- is behind this. If you want to see more political progressiveness then there needs to be less listening to main-stream media and more questioning all the crap that is going on in the world. There are answers but people don't even know to question. But there are other factors. When you spend your life struggling to get by it doesn't leave you much time for anything political. And, as you pointed out, religion is used to keep people in line and not asking any questions. I have often wondered why any repressed group (Blacks, Natives, women) would ever embrace the white God and the subjugation that goes with it. Fear? I dunno... But YOU can serve as a spark to light the fire among your friends and family. It may be a long process, but future generations will be made better for your efforts! Peace.

0

There’s serious opinions out there, seemingly backed by logic and realistic events concerning human evolution. I doubt your audience would appreciate its source, and I’d rather not post or lead you to it. New to what’s still considered, ‘the south’ (US), I’ve witnessed events and behaviors that caused me to dig into this topic. Good luck ~

Varn Level 8 Jan 27, 2018
1

A significant time spent as legally enforced victims. There are still significant systemic barriers to various "races" achieving in countries around the world as a result of the VERY (as in within my lifetime) recent repeal of laws which kept those people in a position of being an underclass. It's only been 50 years, not even two full generations, since those laws were repealed. There are people alive who remember being legally obliged to be second class citizens. Some are still in the workforce. Buckle up for a LOOOONG slog to change this. At least as long as the laws were in place.

0

I think it has to do with the fact that they have been forced upon for many decades.

0

Do not think that is true. Look at the artist and musician's a African American gave us rock and roll. Booker T Washington loads for humanity. George Washington Carver another shinny example. Point is that every race has intelligence and it is rare.

5

Perhaps it has something to do with the majority of of brave foreword thinking black leaders having been lynched, jailed, assassinated, threatened and otherwise oppressed because whites have seen them as threats to their domination of society. Not to mention the massive discrimination in education that still persist to this day.

2

@Tendix I think if you replaced "race" with language or religion the answer would be the same. I don't know the answer, but am sure it has something to do with invasions and wars.
Before the industrial age, humans had a diversity of cultures, each was an adaptation to the environment. Some places required people continue a nomadic lifestyle due to seasonality or scarcities, some environments made this unnecessary and tribal populations could develop some permanence. Sadly invasions disrupt the natural order, and invaders with the greater numbers, or best weaponry win. The worst part is what humanity loses through the destruction of the conquered culture.

@Tendix I will add a further point or three, you have a racial/cultural identity, the concept of race is spurious, in my opinion there is no such thing, but you have an ethnic and cultural background. I do not. My mother was taken from her family and adopted out to British parents who certainly did all they knew how for her. To the best of our knowledge her birth mother was of British decent and all we know of her father are small town rumours that he was "dark". That aside, my heritage is a wide mix of European and although I have Aboriginal 2nd and 3rd cousins we don't share bloodlines. No matter how you look at it, I am at least 4th generation Australian, but Australia has no cultural identity as such. The country pretty much denies its aboriginal heritage and everyone else is identified as European or whatever. I do not fit into either and am not accepted by either. We have never had an Aboriginal Prime Minister, but then you have never had a female President.
Strange world we live in.

@Rugglesby I encourage you to read "The Bell Curve" and"Troublesome Inheritance" and "Dead Aid". There are many books that support my claim. Your personal experience is valid but sadly irrelevant to actual researched facts that look at Black people as a race. It seems rather sensitive for most. But again facts don't lie.

@Tendix - The Bell Curve is a political book, not a scientific one, and it's over 20 years old. Let's move on.

0

Consider that the famous early Brittish scientists like Sir Isaac Newton were the upper class that did not have to work for a living. Perhaps, just perhaps, that seemingly lack of progressiveness in the Black race you perceive is due to the fact that there was precious little time or energy left for thinking when one has completed dawn until dusk exhaustive labor seven days a week.

0

You might be interested in the book Guns, Germs, and Steel. It doesn't provide anything definitive, but it's an interesting hypothesis on the advancement of different civilizations and peoples across the globe. I recommend you pick up an audio book of it from Audible.

I read that, and went to a speech he gave at a nearby university. Have a signed copy. 🙂

7

I'd like to start off by saying there is no black race. Pigmentation has nothing to do with race. You are a human. When people start understanding that we're all humans then maybe we can start helping each other and improve everyone's quality of life. We really need to move on from this pigmentation shit.

Please read "The Bell Curve". Research the poorest continent the world. Progression of African Americans. In order to change we must focus on the problem. Why are African American children still scoring poorly as compared to other minorities or even African immigrants. The is several research on my claim. Sadly it's people like you encourage black people use terms like "white privilege". I'm simply trying to bring awareness so are to educate many and bring change. Whether is cultural or not there needs to be change. We are all equal but sadly the world we live in if from this reality. Simply telling people about pigmentation is an illusion of truth and toxic. When there millions of black people who won't let their daughters attend school and marry old men. When American kids won't go to school because of gangs and so called racism. Science has proven that black people's IQ has decreased and will only get worse. I encourage you to read "The troublesome Inheritance". I'm all about researched facts not personal opinions or liberal unlogical claims

@Tendix I don't think you understood what I was saying first of all. Second of all I'm not showing anybody or encouraging anybody to say white privilege because this has nothing to do with pigmentation. Even you said African immigrants score better than African Americans. Third of all you can start by educating yourself your spelling is atrocious and your not getting the point. if you're all logical and want to better the African American community it needs to start with you. it's sad that we can't just all except that we are humans. Every time they ask me what race I am I put human. Also you might want to stop blaming me and start focusing on the problem and this wasn't based on just my opinion it's a fact that you're a human being and if you were born and raised in America it's a fact you're an American. You want change you make change. So stop blaming others. You might want to start there.

The Bell Curve was one of the most scientifically bad books of all time. Totally false reasoning and biased use of statistics. You can't prove "race" determines intelligence when there is no such thing as race.

1

I have opinions and no facts. May I ask a couple of questions? You write about the Black race as if it is some solid, unified bloc, with no fragmentation. Why would you choose to do that? As an example, you say your own race is in denial. But are they? Or is that what you've been told?
Last question: Has, in your opinion, Barack Obama changed the mindset of the Black community and how people think of each other?

I'll try to answer my best ability to answer. Sadly Obama had very little to change the mindset of African Americans. He was a great President but unemployment, crime and illiteracy is still high. Yes most are in denial. There is almost no accountability. In Africa even after colonialism there is still severe poverty and corruption. It's clear that black people have a history of unprogressive mindset.

@Tendix, this is the part I have trouble understanding.. It is outside of my experience. If I look around me today in America I see a whole lot of my-color America is very very different than me. I am able to accept that the division isn't by color but by degrees of stupid. You and I have more in common because of our knowledge than because of our color.
I think I am trying to say "Then why not change how you see yourself? Include yourself in the group of the rest of us here and don't use color to measure." I read that back to myself and realize I am being a pompous ass, but still...

@Dick_Martin I totally get your reasoning. Hopefully you can understand mine. I migrated to the US from Zimbabwe where religion is practiced by 75% of the population. I too was religious largely because of poverty. I see a large difference in economic development in 3rd world countries compared to 1st world. Surely you see it too. Even in America the African Americans have the lowest education scores, highest crime rates. The most unprogressive response to deal with these issues is Black Lives Matter. Black people are always dependent on other races to fix their problems. There is no accountability at all. I care because if i have kids in the US I'll raise them different. I encourage you to read The Bell Curve and Troublesome Inheritance.

@Tendix, I had a professor who made the case that what you describe is in fact true but that the cause is not skin color but rather a matter of latitude.. Anyone living in colder climates has to adjust or die. One can not sleep outdoors or in unprotected huts when water is freezing. Grains, nuts, and berries are not available when there is 6 inches of snow on everything. He could, and did, go on and on about latitude and weather being the cause of most every thing. And by the way, I reject as untrue that black people are dependent on other races..

@Tendix I'm really sad that you have bought into the "poor Africa" mindset. If you do some research you'll soon realise the reasons Africa is now in the state it's in, and surely you realise why black children in America do less-well? Neither state of affairs has anything to do with race, and everything to do with politicial manipulation.

2

Lady, there’s only one race. And the poorer you are, the harder it is to get ahead. As for being behind, Africa has a very rich history. Sankore was teaching college algebra when Europeans were still fighting over field stones.

That's true and it's my race. Sadly Africa is the poorest continent in the world. Before colonialism and after. There is definitely something about our mind set. We have plenty of rich natural resources but sadly we are still poor. Every country has rich history. What is the point if most of the continent has no basics needs of survival. I speak from experience I'm from Zimbabwe. African Americans have access to so many opportunities but sadly they have the highest unemployment and crime. Also highest college drop outs and illiteracy rates.

@Tendix You need to re-educate yourself because when you say Poorest Continent you are using monetary power as your measuring stick... Africa has desert, pyramids, jungle, gold, silver, diamonds, oil, Fauna in abundance, rivers, mountains and valleys. It has history still to be discovered. Africa is the continent that was never told that was pretty only that was meant to be exploited. Do you know why the 13 colonies were able to separate so easy from England? Because there was nothing in the 13 colonies other than taxes and land. If England would had seen gold, silver, anything to be exploited in the 13 colonies... USA would had never happened when it happened. That is why England did not tried as hard as it did tried in other colonies of their empire. Those 13 colonies where not worth a damn. Men don't fight for land (except the nazis). Men fight for what may be in the land. Africa was unlucky in history because it has Riches, a lot of Riches. So rich that the biggest export for over a century was slaves. No other continent can claim that.

@GipsyOfNewSpain Sadly I disagree. GDP per capita Africa is the lowest in the world. Africa is beautiful and rich in terms of resources but sadly still very poor. Why do you think China is setting roots in Africa. Clearly we incompetent to extract and use those resources to improve our lives. You speak from a tourists point of view. Have you ever lived in these so called rich countries in Africa. I'm from Zimbabwe. It's beautiful we have so many land marks that are beautiful. When I left my country we had no currency, barely water and electricity and things have not changed. After British colonialism we were rich the government forced land and business away from foreign settlers we have become of the poorest countries in the world. All because of corruption and tribalism. Like most African countries beautiful poor. Our currency was equivalent to the US in the early 90s In 2006 we recieved 300 million in donations but still 75% of the country is poor. Why do you think that is? Africa depends on donations and are incapable of sustaining anything. Not even minting roads. African Americans to are example of unprogressive nature. Please read "The Bell Curve" and "DEAD AID" "Infidel". All these books support my claim. I'm passionate about this topic to bring progressive change. Which country are you from?

@Tendix Do you know the last large enough territory in the Americas (north, central, south america) still left to have a rebellion and gain independence? I will answer at the end. Like I said, you are measuring africa and comparing african countries with the success of countries that gained their independence thousands of years ago. Spain was broke when columbus got lost and bumped into the "new world". When you go to a museum where there is a piece of Egypt history. Do you think the pharaoh gave it to that country. No, it was sacked. Africa still being sacked, when a country wins its independence it left to its own devices, not to succeed but to fail. That is the Fear, that is the Lesson to be learned that you can't do it alone, by yourself. So here you are measuring a continent full of young countries success using the measuring stick they, the opresor provides you. You are citing dollars, per capita, income, infrastructure, etc, while acknowledging that foreign interest is still milking africa. You want to read about tribalism? Read the history of england or spain, or france, or italy. The answer to the top question is Puerto Rico. So the reason is that without the "help" of a "benevolent" country as united states the island will die of hunger and that it habitants are too lazy to succeed. Once you insert that in the psyche of a "people", becomes part of that culture. Do not accept less of your people by those results you site. Do you know Latin America was suppose to be only 4 countries? That's it... Venezuela, Brazil, Gran Colombia, Argentina. The tribalism was forced to create several little countries making them easier to control and exploit until there was nothing left. Simon Bolivar said the words "We Will Never Be Free" for that reason because it is not what he wanted, he wanted the strength in the freedom of 4 large countries like north america, only 3 countries. canada, usa, mexico. Everybody is waiting for those african countries to fold and if there is something left to be sacked still it will be sacked. Reason I brought P.R. into this is because there are many of my people that are afraid of starving to death, afraid of communism, afraid of working for a living, they won't sacrifice for a country but will serve as mercenaries and fight other countries wars, I did it, so I know what I am talking about. If tribalism won't work in keeping the african countries down other measures will be implemented like drugs for example. Nations are not supposed to be built overnight unless the powers that may be want it to happen. Look at israel... why the success? not because they are white but because it was in the interest of those countries in power to allow israel to make it and to expand as it is still trying to do despite being Wrong. You can read and accept what you read as gospel or you can realize that what you see are the growing pains of nations ill conceived. You want africa to succeed... africa will have to reunite into 4, 5 or 6 countries. We are no longer living on a tribal era.

2

In the US laws have been placed to limit what blacks could do, and white people conditioned to believe that blacks were inferior. In other countries similar situations existed, for example South Africa.

Yes during segregation sadly I'm yet to see the evidence in 2018. South Africa yes during colonialism but not any more. I'm from Zimbabwe so I know the subject quite well. African immigrants actual score higher academically than African Americans. This was actually research. I think the boook bell curve may actually explain in detail. So don't believe the government has restrictions on the success of Blacks.

@Tendix There are plenty of evidence, you are young and probably have not personally experienced it. I am black and reside in the south. I am educated and I am doing well now, but It was very hard because of the color of my skin. You probably go to a restaurant and sees black waiters and waitresses now. Twenty years ago that was not the norm, especially in the south. Blacks were only given dishwasher positions, and bus person positions. All the police shootings that are happening now. Unarmed black males are getting shot by the police, and unarmed whites are not getting killed at the same rate. As a former police officer I can tell you that black are treated very differently than whites when they are stopped by the police. There are still certain areas that black people do not drive through at night alone. The government may pass laws to try and afford more opportunities for minorities, but people will do what they want to do. They will hire who they want to hire, promote who they want to promote. Some hire one black person just for show and refers to them as the window dressing negro in private. I have heard that term said when they thought that no one was listening.There are still a lot of road block for blacks in this country. Now I agree that black people and minorities need to do more for themselves and not rely on others. Some take the easy way out. We have to try harder on our own. The majority of white people are decent and try to help, but we have to help ourselves also.

@noworry28 I agree there is plenty of evidence sadly there us plenty of evidence supporting my claim. Books like "The Bell Curve" has researched facts. Today yes black people are discriminated, so are latinos, Arabs and many minorities. Please research Black on Black crimes compared to police brutality. You'll find that Black on Black is higher. Illiteracy is higher in blacks. Blacks on Food stamps are higher than any other race. I understand your compassion but sadly it's irrelevant to the facts of all Blacks in the USA. There is no accountability and that's why it frustrates me and why I've done research. I'm looking at blacks all across the world. Progression is very low. I'm black and I want to do better for my future kids and many other black kids.

@Tendix Are you on commission to sell "The Bell Curve"? You mention it so many times. Try a more recent book - that one's 20 years old.

3

Well you need to define regressiveness. Coz last time checked it has nothing to do with the colour of your skin.

Then explain why Africa is still the poorest continent in the world despite having many rich natural resources? Africa depends on foreign assistance with even food. Despite foreign aid, trillions of dollars of donations very little progress. There is a sense of dependence from Africans. Even after colonialism issues like corruption, tribalism often religion are major factors to why Africa has not progressed. I'm from Zimbabwe and the Zim dollar was equivalent to the US dollar in the early 90s. Sadly now we have no currency. Western civilization improved Africa by building schools, teaching basic needs for survival replacing idiotic voodoo customs. After independence most African countries are by far the least progressive in the world. Don't get me started on African Americans. America the land of opportunities. African immigrants actually out score African Americans academically. Even outscoring White Americans according to new research. Yet you will always hear African Americans blaming it all on racism. There is is almost no accountability for their lack of progression. Highest crime rates. In Omaha Nebraska high schools that are dominant black have a 3% pass rate. Free education and countless opportunities but oh yes they blame it all on racism. Progression seems to be lacking in blacks.

@Tendix you need to ask who is owning these natural resources. Africans? But the same Africa has Nigeria, South Africa, Egypt Algeria. If you look at the African history, King of Mali was once the richest person in the world. So, the problem has nothing to do with race. You can say its the belief or the faith system. Regarding the African Americans, you answered yourself African immigrants score better. So, clearly the race is not the issue. I belong to India, which has one of the biggest population of poor people in the world. Any day it will be more than the total American Population. Explain me the reason. We are not blacks. We are the browns😉, in fact we have yellows too, we have Persian colour too. It's a perfect mix out there in India.
You need to know that till the power does not come to the common man, no country will succeed. African resources should belong to the African people. If it is not, all this inequalities are bound to happen.

@Srijith Sadly I think you've gone off topic. I encourage you to read "The Bell Curve" by Richard Herrnstein and Charles Murray. Also "Dead Aid" Dambisa Moyo. Compared to India Africa still cannot compare when it comes to poverty we are still at the lowest per gross capita. African American kids from the ghettos also Excell when they are in African schools so it has alot to do with culture and association. I'm looking at black people as a whole all across the world you are only focusing on a few african countries. Before and after colonization we are still developing countries. Even after western colonies bringing civilization we are still unprogressive. African Americans are another example of unprogressive. As a whole not a few examples. If the info is overwhelming for you just Google the poorest continent in the world.

@Tendix you missed the point there... Bringing India into the equation was just to prove that it's not the colour that is the reason for backwardness. Economically, I know India is way ahead and it is one of the fastest growing economy in the world. The whole point was it could be the belief and faith system which is the basic issue and not the colour. Here in India, its a particular system that Hindus followed that systematically made a big percentage of the society very poor and backward socially and financially. You need to know about India and a very particular type of economical system(linked with the religion and something called caste system) followed for millenia, to understand it. Further, the success rate for a community to grow as a whole totally depends on the social conditions than the colour of the human. With regard to the 'the bell curve', it will be encouraged that you read a bit on the peer review and critiques on the findings by Murray and Hernnstein especially on the findings on racial thing. And for Moyo, she gives an alternative way for the recovery of Africa instead of aids. But, then it seems you are too stuck up with a particular notion. You are entitled to your opinion.

3

Go to the source. I think you are asking to the wrong sample of people.

I think you are right.

@Tendix Without being disrespectful to you or the posts here and their answers. You need to study africa and their civilizations how were developed... what interrupted that development, Who did it? What they did after? To find the nature of an individual you have to observe the individual in its natural habitat. You can take a look at a black raised in america, how they develop into a good or not human being and then put him/her into the inner city... what is their reaction? I got a personal account of the niece of someone very near to me... she was raised by her mother as white. African father not in the picture after divorce. Once she went into african studies in college and noticed she was not black enough or urban enough... she rebelled against those that can only raised her as what they knew like... just to be white. Now what she do? Waitress on a strip joint. Didn't helped her mother raised her very religious and mother while being a good citizen was not a success in anything she did so the hard times happened while growing up. Black has reclaimed her but not for a good ending. I know there are different stories here about your study, this is one of many. Maybe in another time I tell you how white studied the case of Bob Beamon back in the 60's.

@GipsyOfNewSpain can not agree more

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