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If someone is dying and a bystander chooses not to help, should they be held responsible?

For example, a person is drowning. Another person can swim, but chooses not to act. Are they responsible for the death of the victim? What do you think?

silvereyes 8 Feb 8
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57 comments

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1

Having taken first aid training, we learned California law doesn't require us to help, but we are actually legally liable if we begin assistance but then quit prematurely (without reason).

In the example, there could be reasons for declining to attempt a rescue. One thing to remember in that scenario, if the person floundering panics and causes the rescuer to struggle, the person that can swim just allows himself/herself to sink, and that should cause the victim to let go.

17

No, not responsible. Still a shitty human being, though.

14

I think it would set a dangerous precedent to judge what someone could have done to help, as someone might freeze under pressure, be uncertain how to help, be afraid of making the situation worse, etc.

12

I wouldn't recommend not saving a drowning person unless you have a flotation device. It is very dangerous to try to save a drowning victim, and sometimes two people drown as a result. I would try to stop someone from bleeding to death, but other than that, I really don't have many life saving skills. That being said I would do what ever I thought I could do to help.

Sorry if the following message comes off little strong but this attitude is exactly what's needed to rescue a drowning victim. I'm a trained life guard. You are correct about saving someone who is drowning. You need training to do it safely. A person who is drowning is most likely also having a panic attack. Subsequently you must expect an irrational uncooperative response when you approach them. Most drowning people will try to climb on top of you if you approach them incorrectly. It is best to keep your distance and throw them a buoyant device or if necessary swim a rope out and throw it near them then tow them back. You MUST be physically strong enough to overpower someone in a contact rescue or they will drown you. Don't attempt a contact rescue if you are not in excellent fitness. I have attached a link that will help.

[sauvetage.qc.ca]

@kensmile4u That was how I was trained. Many die trying to rescue a victim.

@GipsyOfNewSpain Training is given so less will die. It only makes sense to warn the untrained to the seriousness of the risk. I have saved an untrained rescuer who was being drowned by a panicked victim. When he was free and able to swim I returned and approached the drowning person with the proper communication, contact, and swimming techniques. So I saved two people that day. One who couldn't swim and one who couldn't rescue.

@kensmile4u Many of us were trained, I just thought I would give some friendly advice.

@kensmile4u And as a human... I thank you for saving 2 lives instead of attending two funerals. You are a Credit to your training.

@Leutrelle Apologies if you felt upstaged or diminished. I didn't know you were trained. I added my credentials, the link, and a few more details in the same spirit of benefiting this community.

@kensmile4u No worries. Your comment was out standing🙂

9

yep, it violates the good Samaritan law, I think. Also it indicates a coward. I have leaped into surging rivers twice to save drowning women and under the ice once to save a dog. It is an instinct which some have and some do not. The one time there were several onlookers. I pushed through them and dove in the river. Maybe it's the way one is brought up?

more of you, please.

@witchymom Exactly my CPR is more than a few years out of use. Would I do it anyway? Yes. I'd probably have someone Google the correct compression to breath rate though.

@RavenCT There is no compression to breath ratio anymore. They are now teaching compressions only. Apparently stopping compressions to give breaths is more harmful than not stopping compressions.

[webmd.com]

@d_day Except I have been trained. So I'll go look that up. I used to carry a CPR mask. Should probably order one. Not planning on someone dropping in front of me but you never know.

@RavenCT

I used to have to be certified every two years for work myself. The last few (two or three) I experienced taught compressions only. I've heard that ARC still teaches rescue breathing but haven't confirmed that. The science behind it seems sound too.

@d_day I think they must prefer oxygen or the squeeze bulbs EMTs carry? Also keeping the blood circulating must be more important than oxygen. I too took a course every year when I worked in Psych field - so I'm well familiar. I also at one time heard using a bathroom plunger would work better for chest compressions. I wonder what it states on that now? Off to look that up [dfw.cbslocal.com]

@Hicks66 some people have this innate ability. When they see someone in danger their minds blank out and they risk everything to save them. I don't know where that came from. Anyway whenever it happens I walk away oblivious to thanks and gestures of appreciation. That is irrelevant. Nor do I think much about it or share it. I am not a hero, just someone whose mind goes blank and acts.

@Hicks66 I recall a day seeing a man trying to push his car and steer it as well. It was very hot and a big car. I stopped behind him and got out to help. Another kid came by too young to drive, but I put him in the driver's seat. There were two lanes. Then this woman pulls behind my car and begins blowing her horn non-stop. Finally I could not take it anymore. I went back to her car and told her go around. She made this rude comment about the poor man's car and him as well. So I went and got my tire iron out. Just as I was going to smash her fender a state policeman pulled up and stopped. He asked what was going on. I told him what was happening. He sent me back to help the poor man again. Then he came and helped us push. I asked him what did he tell the lady? Not much, I wrote her a ticket for interfering with you good Samaritans. You may have saved an accident. Now the lady drives by and gives us the finger. The state policeman runs back to his car, turns on the sirens, and stops her about a hundred yards away. We had to push a long way. He came back and said this time he unloaded with the tickets.

9

I think it's pretty circumstantial. I think most people would agree it's the right thing to do.

6

No. You have an absolute right to be a cunt - and while you are responsible for the consequenses of your actions, passivity is not an action. It is a LACK of action.

6

And what if you tried to help and what you did (because you don't have any medical training) killed them? Should you be held responsible since you didn't mean to kill them?

In your scenario I would not. I can swim, but not very well.

I would at least call 911. I certainly wouldn't be one of those idiots taking pictures/video to put on facebook.

They may have laws, but that does't help you when you are sued by the family for the death. I remember several that succeeded when I lived in Texas years ago. My sister worked in hospitals at that time and stopped helping because she didn't want to be sued.

6

That dilemma always runs afoul of US laws. I was living in Ft. Lauderdale when a traffic light turned red. A vehicle was stuck on the railroad tracks that is parallel to Hwy. 1. When the railroad lights began to flash, the driver, I believe it was a younger woman, honked and motioned both of the drivers in front and back of her to move so she could get off the tracks. Neither moved and the woman, trying yo save her car, was killed. The investigation discovered the car in front, first in line for the light, had room to move as did the car behind, although not as much room as the car in front. Each driver claimed they didn't have to move, and they were correct. There was no law, and neither driver was charged.

@irascible I don't know how they could live with themselves

6

Wasn't this the plot of the last Seinfeld?

First thing I thought of. They were jailed for breaking the town's "good samaritan law".

5

I know that in that situation, I would do my best to help out. IDK about holding others responsible. They know their situation and I don't.

Personally, I have rescued 3 people from drowning in my life. I cannot judge whether another person would be a good enough swimmer to do that without getting themselves killed in the process.

JK666 Level 7 Feb 8, 2018
5

It's situation to situation. I stepped between two of my nephews (during a very heated argument) and got thrown into a wall. One was 5 ft 5 in the other 6 ft 3 in. - However a child was involved and the other was a full grown person. - If two adults are gong at - it unless you have some awesome training - don't do it. - Same with drowning - if you are untrained or a lousy swimmer - you're just adding to the death count. - Yes if you CAN help do. - But if you are going to get yourself killed - don't. - Well there are some things I'd still do even if it meant I would end up dead. ,.. Conflicted here. lol

5

In your example, if you don’t know how to RESCUE someone drowning, and you try? You’d likely die.

You also never know with blood, illness, health or wellbeing. You don’t know if the passing Samaritan is fit, is rushing to a dying kinsmen or has kids in the car. You’re a dick if you have a phone and don’t call 911 unless someone is actively doing so, buteven that is psychology where people divert, so as the type who’s a first responder, it doesn’t offend me when others don’t. But if your ass has something that could make me, a Good Samaritan, have an easier go at helping (and know that you do)— and you’re sticking around but NOT getting that stuff? You’re totally a jerk then.

I saw a guy get hit by a car when he took his bike on a turn without checking left that second time. I was walking my dog. Suffice to say, severe blow to head, bleeding— some folks were telling him to get up (pro tip: DON’T) and a cop was diverting traffic but didn’t even come close to the guy. I was on the phone with 911, checking a pulse, trying to talk to an unresponsive to keep still and help’s coming— stranger to me, but he’s bleeding... the person who pissed me off then was the cop. Not the bystanders, but the jackass who sees a civilian going above and beyond while keeping her dog AWAY from the bleeding guy and they don’t pull the nitrile gloves from their kit in their trunk. Fucking ass.

5

As the laws stand now - they would not be held responsible. Not everyone is trained to do anything , and might actually cause more harm than good by trying to "help". And certainly not everyone is willing or able to ... say... pull someone from a burning car, or save someone from drowning etc.

That said, I would like to think that they would stay at the scene of a dangerous event, to at least call 911, or help in any way they are able - even if it's just to talk to someone in distress, or hold their hand !

5

What shitty finale for Seinfeld.

Anyways: it's ridiculous to think a court should waste resources equivalent to which is needed to convict a criminal to punish someone who was probably defenseless or scared of the situation. Please. We have better things to do.

5

There are too many variables. I think most people would try to help someone in danger, but not if it would place themselves in danger. For instance going into a burning building to save someone.

5

No. If they are not trained professionals they could be risking themselves which adds a patient to be taken care of. If a trained professional doesn't it would depend on the circumstances

5

In July of this year a group of Florida teenagers taunted a drowning man while filming his death .Instead of calling for help or trying to assist the man they could be heard laughing .The state of Florida does not have a law where a citizen is required to render aid or even call for help. There are probably other States which lack laws that can save people’s lives

People are not helping because we have turned ourselves prospective enemies of eathother yet we pretend daily that we are a community. We are not according to what I see, the good thing though--Colleges--atleast in Portland--they are encouraging students to be brother's keeper but even with that, there's a lot of resentment. The idea that every bottle sits on its own bottom destroyed humanity and promoted apathy.

Florida has a good samaritan law (see link 1). It is written to protect an average citizen rendering emergency aid from being sued.
Florida law does not require anyone who is not a professionally licensed emergency worker to render aid. In the case you mentioned where these shitty kids recorded a disabled man drowning, no charges could be filed. There is a petition in Florida to change the situation and name the new law after the drowning victim (see link 2).

[leg.state.fl.us]

[change.org]

5

no way. they may however regret not helping for the rest of their lives

4

Being able to swim and saving a drowning person are miles apart. But you could take other action. Calling for help enlisting others. I knew a cop who died trying to rescue 2 people in an overturned canoe. Life guards have this training, not most others

4

If you do not have certifications or a duty to assist one may make oneself legally liable. Tragically some that have sought to help individuals in distress have been sued successfully. I have not heard of it occurring with the swimmers example. Saying this, I know that if I thought I could help someone I would.

3

If the bystander knows that person is dying, and knows that by picking up a phone and dialling 911 (or 999 for the brits) would be the only way to help the person, then yes I think they should

3

I really don't know. you could see someone dangerous driving fast and dangerously and you do a pit manoeuvre like the police do and get busted yourself or see someone robbing someone else using a gun and pull your gun out and shoot them and get busted. morally unless you really fucking hate them, of course, you should help. after all, calling the police or fire brigade is doing the right thing but it doesn't mean it can save them.

3

No, they shouldn't be held responsible.
The reality is that if someone is dying, chances are they may do more harm than good if they're not a trained medical professional.

At the very least, they should call emergency services.

3

Will the punishment for "not doing anything" equal to "actually having done it"? E.g. will the punishment for allowing an assault/rape/murder to happen equal the punishment for actually committing assault/rape/murder. No. I really don't think it should be.

But if the person does nothing when they could have helped (even if only to call others for help), it's "on that person". I think anyone with that irresponsibility and/or apathy have other things in their lives that are not "going for them".

I can accept that some consequence for "not doing anything" is applicable - in a case-by-case basis.

3

This is something I have learned in real life situations: The answer is: no. Just cuz you think you can help someone, does not mean you are capable. Swimmers that attempt to help a drowning person tend to drown as well. They will fight you trying not to go down, killing you both. If you don't know how to treat for shock, not move somebody, proper CPR, etc., you aren't gonna do any good.

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