How Stratification Impacts Relationships and Society
6
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BucketlistBob
Level 8
Feb 14, 2018
0
Finally our duty declared. ..we are our brothers keeper. ......Cain was a Vegan hero. ..he stopped the slaughter of innocent albino lambs and offered grain with fruit to the bloody violent Jehovah
GreenAtheist
Level 8
Feb 12, 2018
0
I agree. Case in point is rural America where knowledge level ability to learn and process information is exalted as the pinnacle of achievement for the majority as rewarded by their leaders. They learn by repetition to the knowledge level for the most part and leave most of the comprehension, application, analysis, synthesis, and evaluation to others higher in the hierarchy. I'm not saying that some of these activities aren't requirements for rural life for some - but these practices are formulaic - established by their hierarchy - they remain quite gullible on a range of other beliefs regardless and metaphysically speaking, there's a reason for that. Giving the responsibility to someone else gives great peace to sheeple who stop learning making them very easy to program. IMO, this is the point of screwing up education, but that is another subject.
jeffy
Level 7
Feb 11, 2018
1
I don't accept the conclusion. You can have a very equal society with no kindness.
engineer_in_nj
Level 6
Feb 11, 2018
0
@VictoriaNotes wild west america. Everyone was pretty much equally poor and cruelty was the norm not the rule.
@VictoriaNotes thats cute, scalping was developed by the US Calvary to genocide the natives.
In my design class, I teach how rectilinear architecture is predominant in societies with social hierarchies and curvilinear buildings are representative of an egalitarian society. Those are tendencies, not absolutes.
farmboy2017
Level 7
Feb 11, 2018
0
Of course society shapes us and how we think. The fact that urban areas are more socialistic and liberal than rural shows that. Unfortunately, population gain and increasing competition for resources only exacerbates the problem of differing hierarchies. Throw in the increasing diversity that so many tout and the problem only gets worse. I strongly believe we are seeing the effects of a lessening of reciprocal partners more and more. When one has trouble identifying with another one is less apt to be altruistic.
JackPedigo
Level 9
Feb 11, 2018
1
>Throw in the increasing diversity that so many tout and the problem only gets worse.
No, you are not going to spin "we can't be nice to each other because we have minorities" you can't save humanaism by discarding humans.
@engineer_in_nj It is not spin. More and more diversity brings more and more differences. Languages (how can one be altruistic to someone doesn't understand?), cultures (good and bad), competition for resources and on and on. I look at the real world not some make believe world of pure idealists. There is such a thing as too much diversity.
Japan was recently criticized for it's low immigration rate. Japan is smaller than California with >180 million (to Ca's 39 million). Japan has problems providing resources for it's own citizens and some want them to add even more? Japan wants to maintain it's culture not water it sown. We decry the loss of cultures but tout the rise of diversity. We can't have both.
"More and more diversity brings more and more differences."
which is great. Monoculture sucks for breeds, crops, and society.
"Languages (how can one be altruistic to someone doesn't understand?)"
It is called empathy. A trait that all mammals share. You have never seen anyone care for a baby? Or play with a dog?
>cultures (good and bad), competition for resources
humans don't compete for resources, we produce resources. You want a resource? Go dig in the dirt to find a rock, I will watch you from starbucks.Everything worth anything is many many times removed from its raw material origins. The world is not finite sum, me becoming wealthier does not make you poorer.
"I look at the real world not some make believe world of pure idealists"
reading alt-right /pol memes isnt the real world.
"There is such a thing as too much diversity."
Nope.
"Japan was recently criticized for it's low immigration rate. Japan is smaller than California with >180 million (to Ca's 39 million). Japan has problems providing resources for it's own citizens "
I thought it was the 3rd wealthiest nation on earth, and in the top 5 per capita. What "resources" can it not provide?
"Japan wants to maintain it's culture not water it sown."
And I want a solid gold blimp filled with chocolate. Want doesnt mean rights.
"We decry the loss of cultures but tout the rise of diversity."
We do? That doesnt even make sense. Diversity means more cultures in one area, how can you complain about losing cultures because you are getting more of them?
Do me a favor. Stop speaking for me. You don't represent any of the values of America and we don't need your alt-righters to save us from diversity. I am going to chill here in the nyc-metro area with all the minorities and you can live in your monoculture fly-over state worrying about the dangers of brown people. Just never ever speak for me again.
@engineer_in_nj I speak for myself (we still do have that right in this country and this site). If people don't like what I am saying it is THEIR problem, not mine.
This site also touts critical thinking. That doesn't mean criticising other's thinking but examining one's own!!!
"We decry the loss of cultures but tout the rise of diversity. We can't have both."
if you speak for yourself why use the word "we"?
Dont speak for me.
@engineer_in_nj What am I supposed to say?? Me, We is plural and inclusive. This is not just my idea but it has been debated in several mediums. It's too bad some (another inclusive word) people are touchy and take things too personal. If the shoe doesn't fit don't wear it. Again, not my problem and this conversation is done.
"This is not just my idea but it has been debated in several mediums"
4chan, stormfront,
Stratification allows those in power to stay in power! It keeps the masses in their struggling reality and allows the 1% that control the wealth and military of the world to carry on unchecked! It is all about access and the masses don't have access until they unite which becomes harder and harder due to the economic hardship which is imposed upon them. Marx's revolution will only happen when the professional class rises up......it's coming!
JLyons
Level 3
Feb 11, 2018
1
Agreed.. I remember the days when the US had three major TV networks, seemed society broke down around them, with groups finding identity in what ‘they watched last night.’ With increasingly diverse programing, cable TV furthered the stratification between those who could afford it, as well as what they watched. With the Internet, there’s even more divergence and perhaps a deeper loss of national unity.
As a nation, we also appear to need a unifying threat. Communism had filled that bill ..until the USSR collapsed. Fear motivates, and the least educated or mentally impaired are quickest to respond; they’re also the easiest to manipulate, and within our dear democracy, enough of their votes can offset those of the less fearful and complacent ... leading to detrimental leaders and policies ..adding further to social friction and fracturing..
Division replaces unity, and society brakes down. Maybe at times like these spending millions launching a red sports car into space has more unification value than practicality.. And, maybe, through technology like this, a world-wide unity may be established through communication of shared hope, needs and desires 
Varn
Level 8
Feb 11, 2018
2
This very thing is something my ZPG group talked about over 20 years ago.
you say unity, I read group-think.
Sadly true. And, in today's society in our country the political and religious right seem to be becoming more and more retrenched, drawing their wagons around themselves. They are more and more concerned only about themselves and ideological kin, and more and more aggressive and exclusive toward all other social groups and viewpoints. What I see today among that group is worse than what I saw in the days of racial segregation in the deep South during the 1960s.
wordywalt
Level 9
Feb 11, 2018
2
I don't get the inverse relationship between fewer reciprocal partners and altruism...
Hominid
Level 7
Feb 11, 2018
0
Let me clarify: if the number of friends you have in the same social strata affects your altruism, by definition it's not altruism.
Am I missing something @josh_karpf @silvereyes @victorianotes ?
@VictoriaNotes - I can see how selflessness is easier when there's less competition (less stratification); evolution bares this out. I think maybe my concept of altruism is that it should not be conditional if it is truly coming from nobility and benevolence, but I think that applies more to humans.
Interestingly, the fact that incoming baboons to the troop assimilated this behaviour instead of trying to control them with aggression shows how altruism can be a positive evolutionary adaptation. Cool stuff.
@silvereyes - Now we're going down a rabbit hole... but yes, there's been philosophical propositions that describe everything we do as selfish, including selflessness. It may be a little higher than selfishness on Maslow's pyramid, but it is in a way still self serving. An analogy I use is the person who moves onward from substance addiction to AA meeting addiction...
@VictoriaNotes I likey! Can we learn from Baboons - Ha!, we are Baboons! The human analogs to those behaviors are pronounced. The human hierarchy expends lots of effort keeping the lower ranks fearful. We have wars, terrorism, crime, accidents - more at 11PM (the nightly news). The head Baboons make sure that we are aware of how dangerous things are and how much we need their protection. The real question is, who do we need protection from? The terrorists or Homeland Security? But that's a different subject.
@VictoriaNotes Ha! An alternative - How about dispensing Zombie virus on Fox News and DC? The truth would come out - "Brains, we want brains". Do you think Sapolsky was suggesting it was futile to resist, or adulating a transformative mindset?
@VictoriaNotes Very nice presentation. Did you ever see the statistical documentary Freakonomics'? It posited a relationship between the decline in crime and Rowe v Wade and how people mistakenly gave Rudy Giuliani all the credit. Sapolsky reminded me of that travesty speaking to the MAOA gene issue. So we have the capacity to transform, but lack the motivation because of the divisions the head baboons propagate. Nice for them, huh?
@VictoriaNotes Interesting connections! Unfortunately, I think there's a profit motive in the production of unwanted children. There's some sort of abusive foster family/private prison/legal defense/law enforcement cabal that needs new victims to run through their mill. It's horrible but the religious anti-abortion movement thinks it has the moral high ground? When I come across one of those I always make a point of asking how many children they have adopted, rarely is there a response. . .
Enjoy being online again!
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