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Agnostic vs Athiest

I just want to question peoples view on the two; they both question religion and the “higher power.”

Alungabardi 4 Nov 24
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0

I am a hardline agnostic.

Every definition I've seen here of agnostic defines weak agnostic.

Weak agnosticism says "I'm not sure if god exists."

That is not an Agnostic. You can say that is agnostic thinking.

Agnostics with a capital A say that question is unanswerable.

Agnostics DO NOT BELIEIVE IN ULTIMATE TRUTHS!
As an Agnostic with a Capitol A, we believe the question of god is moot.

We also consider athiest believers. We consider athiest no different from theist.

To put it in its most politically incorrect terms, we consider all non Agnostics as arrogant liars.

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The dawkins scale of belief:

Strong Theist -- . . . 100% convinced that God exists.
De facto Theist -- . . not 100% but very close.
Weak Theist -- . . . not sure, but still a believer.
Pure Agnostic -- . . . 50/50 chance that God exists.
Weak Atheist -- . . . not sure, but leaning to non-belief.
De facto Atheist -- . . not 100%, but very close.
Strong Atheist -- . . . 100% convinced of no God.

2

It's really simple.

Theism addresses belief.

Gnosticism addresses knowledge.

I am an agnostic atheist.

Atheist because I do not believe the claims by theists that a god(s) exists. The evidence they have does not pass muster and I have seen nothing that would warrant a belief in any gods.

Agnostic because I do not know that any gods could not exist in any form in any universe.

When there is sufficient evidence to prove the existence of gods, then I will be a theist - and a gnostic theist at that!

Dude! So well put! With your evidence, there is also no proof to the contrary! There is no way to prove that there ISNT a god(s). People would decry “having faith” until they are blue in the face. To me, it’s just about having faith that there is a greater purpose - whatever it may be.

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for one thing, most atheists can spell atheist (not athiest), while most agnostics can spell agnostic lol. i do not see atheism as questioning religion and "the higher power." i see atheism as not questioning but rejecting "the higher power," which generally leads to a rejection of religion, if said religion involves such a power. it is not itself the rejection of religion, though as i say it generally involves that. when i say "not questioning" i should add "anymore"; certainly some questioning has occurred, but eventually an atheist can be said to have reached something like a conclusion.

here is what isaac asimov said about it:

“I am an atheist, out and out. It took me a long time to say it. I've been an atheist for years and years, but somehow I felt it was intellectually unrespectable to say one was an atheist, because it assumed knowledge that one didn't have. Somehow, it was better to say one was a humanist or an agnostic. I finally decided that I'm a creature of emotion as well as of reason. Emotionally, I am an atheist. I don't have the evidence to prove that God doesn't exist, but I so strongly suspect he doesn't that I don't want to waste my time.”

g

I can dig it! Thank you so much for the conversation. Very well put! I always correlate atheists with the outright denial of spirituality and a higher power. Atheists, that I’ve met, have just been rejecting people for their beliefs regardless of knowledge or information. I’ve seen a lot of ignorant atheists and I’m happy to see a ton of intelligent ones! Also, thanks for the spelling correction!

@Alungabardi you're welcome. i feel i must mention that yes, by definition, an atheist rejects the idea of a "higher power." that doesn't mean all atheists reject the PEOPLE who believe in those things -- they reject the beliefs but not necessarily the people. not all theists are morons. their beliefs may be moronic to some of us, but people DO compartmentalize. as for spirituality, everyone has a different definition. to me it's religion light, and i DO reject it, but not people. as for ignorant atheists, how is that different from the general population? i do not find atheists more ignorant than anyone else; i find them in general slightly less ignorant.

g

@genessa I have heard more atheists argue people about their beliefs, just to argue, than not. Not believing and forcing your point on someone is no different than believing and forcing your religion on someone. Both are ignorant and both are present. But, it’s nice to see educated intelligent perspective.

@Alungabardi again, no more than, and much less than, theists. if you've seen more atheists than theists do this, all i can say is you are probably working with a small sample.

g

1

You define all words (including Agnostic Atheist) how you like, the only obligation is to make your own usage clear to the people listening to you. That is why arguments about defining words are ultimately a waste of time, and also why theists love them because they know that you can prove anything if you start by defining the words to suit. E.g. 1+1=2, I will now start using the word "four" to mean two, therefore 1+1=4. The trick is, that they know many people who are naive think that words have fixed meanings, and that therefore if you define a word once, then what applies to that definition must always apply.

But for what it is worth, I always call myself a "Broad Church Skeptic" because although I have very strong views on where I stand, I do see rejecting religion as the main and big thing, and can therefore be tolerant of a wide range of skeptical thinking as long as the thinkers are tolerant of others. You should also check out, Google, the difference between hard atheism and soft atheism, if you wish to understand the "common" usages well.

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Pick a belief and go with it. Those who don't believe if sky pixies tend to go with atheism.

Hahaha!!! Sky pixies! Thanks man! Great convo on this question though!

2
  1. Agnosticism is a knowledge position: we can't know anything about gods because they're non-falsifiable.

  2. Atheism is a belief position: we don't afford belief to the unsubstantiatble (see 1). It is a specific expression of skepticism and critical thinking.

I have come to regard them as two sides of the same coin. I identify as both.

1 is commonly misrepresented as something other than Huxley envisioned for the term -- as a sort of uncertainty about gods, or some statement of "open-mindedness".

2 is commonly misrepresented as positive disbelief and/or positive knowledge of god's non-existence -- a largely theist gaslighting technique that attempts to redefine atheism as something other than a rational, considered position, so that it can be more plausibly dismissed out of hand rather than substantively answered or engaged with.

So perfect! Exactly the issue I experience! The negative societal connotation with the word “atheist” has driven me to call myself agnostic just because it’s more palatable. I also do believe there is something out there, maybe not “a god” but definitely something.

2

The atheist says, " I don't have a belief in any God as there's not a scrap of evidence for any of them. Find some evidence and make an appointment. I'll fit you in. So, I'm an atheist, and I mean about all Gods."

The agnostic says, "Well, I'm not sure if there's a God. I haven't seen any evidence of a god. I'm not even sure if God is knowable, that is able to be known, so, I'll have to be uncertain about that too. So, I'm an agnostic, mainly about the God I grew up with, but I guess all of them, sort of (if you press me).

The atheist says to the agnostic, "Errr, ok, well, I guess we'll both reconsider it if some evidence comes along. But don't hold your breath."

🙂

1

I still don't know the difference. I just know I can get along with either. Christians really hate it when I tell them there is no Heaven or Hell. Its all made up. I believe in the Universe. God represents something man made and no longer means anything.

There are some really good explanations of the difference on this chat. Check them out, it’s helping me clear it up. I will say I believe in Mother Earth and that is probably the closest thing to “god” I believe in. In my tribe, we pray often for a better way to things. But it’s more about just sending good wishes than truly believing that there is some “god” up there that will change life based on our prayers. It’s more about having intention and letting universe decide if that’s right. Having a good heart.

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Agnostic, I do not know
Atheist, I do not believe

@powder nice! It does seem more and more man made.

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I don't see any reason to believe in gods, so I primarily identify as atheist. I am, however, an agnostic atheist--I do not see the existence of gods as a falsifiable claim, so I cannot tell you there is absolutely no way there are gods. I just find it easier to start with the assumption there are not. Same thing if someone found a unicorn--I start with the assumption there are none, but proof of one would change my mind.
I can tell you about several gods I am certain are not real, though that is a different discussion entirely.

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It’s all how you see things in your mind. Both are freethinkers and that to me, is the most important thing.

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If you are asking the question do you believe there is a god, gods, or creator of the universe? The theist will say yes, the agnostic will say I don't know, the atheist will say no. So the atheist's answer in this example is a belief there is no god, gods, or creator because any conclusion without knowledge is a belief. I know a few atheists who are allergic to this idea but it is totally logical.

Right, I just find it hard to believe there ABSOLUTELY is not. Believing and not believing have equal parts proof, so, we don’t really know. The idea of religious gods absolutely don’t seem real or factual. But, there could be something up there. What does that make me?

1

I am an agnostic - anti-theist.

I'm with Penn Jillette on this:
Agnostic and atheist answer two different questions:
We cannot know fur shur how our universe started: agnostic (without knowledge)
There ain't no all powerful invisible critters fucking with humans on the earth: atheist (there is no reliable proof of such beings)

And I agree with Sam, and Christopher,... I am an anti-theist because I oppose religionists imposing their mental illness on all us good folks.

Cool. I think I’m with you on this one! An agnostic anti-theist

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Q1 Does God Exist?
A1 I don't know, I'm an agnostic.
Q2 Do you believe in God?
A2 No, I'm an atheist.

1

Atheist: That bullshit someone made up about how the universe started is definitely bullshit.
Agnostic: That bullshit someone made up about how the universe started MIGHT be true.

1

Agnostic = there's probably not a god, but maybe...
Atheist = there is no god. Nope, no maybe.

1

Atheist excuse the belief in gods entirely where agnostics really aren’t shure of one exists or not and even if gods ever one day proven don’t know which one is the right one

If God does show up, would atheist still be atheists? Would they reject the idea that it is, in fact, god?

5

You can search this, it been discussed here dozens of times, almost weekly.

Thanks for the reply. I’m sure it’s a hot button topic and I will check some stuff out!

1

I am atheist. There is no "what if" in my mind.

Della Level 6 Nov 24, 2018

Can you tell me why?

I consider myself agnostic - more spiritual than a believer in one all mighty god. There may be many and there may be one, I just don’t know.

@irascible What if ... the one-eyed, one-horned, flying purple people eater is real?

@Alungabardi If you don't know then you have no basis to hold or form a belief and gods, conceptually, are irrelevant.

@Alungabardi I do believe there are other planes of existence. I have seen evidence of this personally. I just don't believe or "worship" any omnipotent, infallible deities responsible for creating everything we know.

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