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comment on my theory

check this out ... what if african cultural evolution has been slowed compared to other continents because all of the hominids were simutaneously for a long period and they had to homogenize for a hominid to take dominance whereas the other continents had a relative monopoly for their hominid with a few skirmish exceptions so the others had more time to advance while the africans were still competing. I know egyptian culture tends to deny that but they are pretty isolated from the rest of africa and they interacted with the fertile crescent and the indus valley more.

thoughts??

JeffMesser 8 Jan 27
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0

From what I understand, advances have occured most frequently in areas that have limited arable land. As in warfare over resources, as well as innovation that increases yields or competitive edge. Innovations like religion.

This warfare is the cause behind the MASSIVE LOSS IN GENETIC DIVERSITY in the Y chromosome that is observed beginning 10,000yrs ago. So who are the less advanced culture?

0

Sorry there, kauva, but your 'theory' makes about as much sense as putting flyscreen doors on a submarine.

and your objection was as useless as a nuke on a diesel boat. how about giving reasons instead of complaints.

@kauva Since you've asked then, A) I've studied human evolution for well over Thirty years, including such civilizations as Ancient Egypt, B) Modern History since I was in High School, C) Ancient Languages for at least 25 years, including Cuneiform, Ancient Egyptian Hieroglyphs, Aramaic, Latin, etc, etc, and, D) nowhere in either Modern or Ancient Egypt does it state that they saw themselves as ísolated'from the rest of the African Continent, and that's just for starters.

@Triphid your objection is that you havent seen it stated by others? LOL How completely unoriginal.

@kauva I would hazard to say that I may just have read and researched far, far more materials, etc, than you can possibly imagine, my friend.

@Triphid so no one ever comes up with any new hypothesis? I see.

@kauva On that point, my dear Sir, you would about 110% INCORRECT.
But for any Hypothesis to actually become a valid THEORY it MUST be able to stand great and very substantial scrutiny by its peers, have actual empirical EVIDENCE to support it, evidence that is both irrefutable and indisputably solid as well as being able to withstand the same scrutiny as mentioned previously.
Am I getting across to you as yet, Sir?

@Triphid oh ... scrutiny? so they actual list reasons and logic? they don't just say "no one has said that before"?

@kauva Sir, are you really insistent upon 'whipping this dead horse'?

ok

@kauva ??????????

@Triphid I agreed with you. I was done. point made.

@Triphid and you're STILL insulting me? I see you lack the social skills of normal, everyday people so I will put you on the "shun" list.

@kauva Sir, I was not insulting neither you nor any other person/peoples, I was merely suggesting that you may wish to up-grade your 'skills.
But, hey, feel free to put me on your 'shun' list, it's no skin off my nose and you can be most assured that I will NOT be losing any sleep over it either.

2

First, define "cultural evolution" and the time period that you're talking about. Then tell me about the evidence that you are basing your theory on.

Orbit Level 7 Jan 27, 2019
2

Ummm
.where's this Theory?..your rant is as close to utter ignorance as is possible without actually becoming racist..

well your jackass opinion isn't appreciated anyway so bug off.

@kauva and yours is mindless..lololol, also the "theory" has no conclusive scientific evidence to support your Argument..there are,
however, multiple books on How civilization was formed in Saharan Africa before Egypts rise to prominence.
If you can't take a legit critique, don't post asking for peoples thought on your "Theory".

@Charlene whatever. buh bye.

4

Read the book Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies.
You will see that agriculture came relatively at the same time in middle east, China and Africa, this eliminating for a long range the war against other species.
The book is very interesring.

I will do that. a couple of others mentioned the same. thx!

@kauva also in the beginning of the navigations there were not much difference in technology and military between Africa Europe and Asia.
Muslims traded from the Atlantic to Indonesia. 1500 and something the ottoman empire was giving a hard time for the central European Christians. Even the American tribes beat the Spanish in the first try.
What was really determinant was the fragmentation of Europe, that generated a fast weapon race. There were no 2 powerful African kingdoms close enough, the ottomans and the Chinese were the only big boys in their yard, same with the Inca and Maya empires.
But in Europe, every few kilometers there was an enemy, so you need to improve.
The real technological and productive jump was the industrial revolution. Before that was not that different for real.

@Pedrohbds and how do they get past the ice age? in our last mini-ice age the agricultural beginnings happened as the hominids were driven closer to the equator and turned more omnivorous in those grassy fields. there's solid evidence to speculate agriculture beginning in the fertile crescent given the earliest cities found there. I know a lot of the chinese history and government and biology are kept from western eyes and the Smithsonian has been working with chinese scientists to conduct DNA testing to check for evidence that homo erectus populated those asian plains before homo sapien arrived and to see the DNA percentages of homo denisovan in their population. Plus, if homo erectus populated that area you're talking about a hominid that branched prior to homo heidelbergensis so the chinese could have archaic DNA (lesser mutated mitochondrial genome sequences) which could be helpful in genetic medicine.

1

Good discussion here. I don't have much to add (mostly lurking to learn--"learking"? ), but I will mention this: after having read Barbara Kingsolver's The Poisonwood Bible, I must have fallen down a Google hole or something--I don't remember, but it's not in the book itself, I don't think--because I ended up learning that somewhere in the very thick jungles of pre-colonial Africa, like the Congo, probably, at least one society adapted to the challenging jungle conditions (no or poor roads, only foot-travel, etc.) by developing a system of governance that relied upon representatives making regular walking trips to all the villages to share news and information and generate concensus, etc. IIRC (or maybe I'm surmising) this resulted in a culture with a strong and unique oral tradition, egalitarian and collectivist mores, and a very peaceful, productive, successful society.

Everybody living together in harmony and economic prosperity, as craftmen and gardners, who are civic-minded, and feel like they have agency in their society and governance? I'd call that "very advanced."

Of course, white folks come along and say, "These people don't even have horse-drawn carts! They're barely better than cave-dwellers!" ...and we all know what happens after that.

I'm for a very broad and context-based definition of "advancement."

oh thats certainly a good point. same for the native americans. the iroquois (i think it was) had a very advanced social system and also recognized 3 sexes as well as maintaining peace among various tribes for some time. I don't disagree with you there about "advancement" definitions. my actual context was trying to determine why african-americans have a stronger affinity for religious zealotry ... which is a racist question itself but the reasons that may be produced qualify the question to have actual significance.

1

it does rather depend on what direction you think makes a culture superior. if you think superiority is determined by who takes over, then maybe. if you think it is determined by what works for the populace, then nope, i don't think much of it.

g

5

Two things: what you posited was an hypothesis and not a theory. Two: Egypt wasnt isolated. It was just that the Nile River and Delta was the only place in Northern Africa where a large population could be supported. Egypts influrnce was felt all the way to India, across Greece and southern Europe and Northern Africa. Alexandria was the center of the intellectual world for a long time.

The rest of your hypothesis is convoluted and specious. Sorry

no it's cool. I appreciate your thoughts!! I don't agree with you though about egypt not being isolated. the portion of africa that remained with no cities during egyptian reign proves my point. I believe egypt's proximity to the fertile crescent ties it to my theory.

@kauva hmmm. Let me ponder on it.

5

I recommend Jared Diamond's book Guns, Germs, and Steel. He does a pretty good job talking about traits that allowed certain cultures to dominate others. For example, he argues that European intermingling and internal competition helped them develop advantages like disease immunities and war experiences that helped them as they expanded.

Edit: I see while I was typing someone else mentioned the book. You win DeStijl. ?

Great minds...

That is a great book to read. I also recommend it. I think that we need to also think about different ways that cultures " Advanced" including social and spiritual .

5

Ummm ok for some reason humans who resided within tropical areas and by that I mean lower Central America, South America, Australia, New Zealand, and the hundreds of other island inhabited by humans.

That they peaked because they didn’t see any need for advancement or that because of diseases,weather, and natural predators they were solely focused upon survival.

They were just trying to maintain their numbers and they only fought over territories just like the animals they would’ve observed and learned from.
And actually we could include our own native Americans into this equation.

Whereas civilization’s like the Egyptians, Sumerians, lower Asia, japan and Europe all who limited diseases, they hunted down and eliminated the bulk of their predators and used their skins and fur to adapt to harsh weather conditions.

And from there they somehow became conquers who constantly pushed beyond their own territories which forced them to create better weapons and fortifications for survival.

I’m just saying that if you were to go to areas that have been barely touched by outside influences you’ll find people still living a lesser evolved life.
It’s all about adapting to your needs vs adapting for dominance and wealth.

I think what's youre saying here is that those who had to battle for survival didnt develop socially or culturally. I agree with that and accept it into this proposition.

Nope.
Basically 4 seasons is didactic. You have high yield fast growing seasonal crops, even in wild state.
AND there is more landmass in temperated zones, making the exchange of culture, technologies for producing easier with the same climate.
All tropical areas are islands, deserts or north-south oriented, what limits the spread of techniques.
The same crops and animals can be Used from Portugal to China with few adaptations.
In America for example the northern pumpkin and peanud don't grow in South and the southern cassava don't grow well on north.
Also the only domesticated animal was the lhama in the Andes, so not much distance could be made by it.
The tropical weather generates crops that produce the whole year, but it takes years from seed to productive tree.
The temperate ones have 1 or 2 harvest per year.

@kauva I’m not saying that they didn’t develop I’m just saying that that human survival outweighed competition between societies.

5

What blows that theory out of the water is that Egypt was a major player in the advance of civilization in early times. Egypt was not isolated as much as you might think, and remember that the major opponent to Roman imperialism was Carthage. Not only that, if you look at the Fertile Cresent AKA Mesopotamia, it was a chaos of kingdoms, each one fighting for dominance, ruling for some time, then getting overrun. Ancient history is one of my areas of interest, and if you learn about these times, mostly BC, you will find plenty of things that contradict that Africa theory. There was a good deal of influence from Egypt upon Greek Philosophy too.

THHA Level 7 Jan 27, 2019

thank you. I appreciate that!!

4

Have you read Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs, and Steel?

This is a great book. It's also available in cd.

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