@twshield You must realize that cis hetero women are NOT like men, and have no comprehension of male lust.

Typically, most women tolerate sex so they can get what they really want..affection, financial support, and protection. Most women would MUCH prefer to cuddle, go on a romantic picnic to a lake, be shown tokens of affection, like her guy picking flowers for her, or buying her something they knew she'd like, just to make her happy.

They don't want to "put out," and if they get the idea that that's all their men want, they will likely dump them. Most married women I know complain about their sex fiend husbands if they have sex more than a few times a month.

@twshield I am going to be a very bad person here and agree with you, my young friends would be horrified, but one reason I have been reluctant to enter into a relationship is the different levels of libido. I am still expected to meet all of the woman's requirements, but I am bad for having a higher sex drive. So I leave my options open, this is only one of the reasons of course, but it is one.

@twshield NOT TRUE.
Men will stray even if they are married to some male-ish female with a strong male libido who enjoys wild sex with her spouse. I should know, being partially transmale. The only thing that keeps them faithful is if they are with a "real" female with strong female traits.

Those types of women instinctively train their males to obey them by withdrawing attention from lovers the moment they start disrespecting them. Men who even ogle women in passing will likely find their stuff on the lawn and the house locks changed.

End of problem..before it even begins.

@twshield Perhaps you are the type of man "real" women would avoid, if that's what you think. Lucky for you, there are many male-ish females who act like males and cling to men, forgiving them anything, are needy, etc. These are typically the women who are cheated on or abused because the "real" women, with strong female traits, would never date such men in the FIRST place.

Very good points!

Thank you! I love this answer.

@twshield, sorry honey, but if you have encountered users, and still encounter them, then that's an issue, you yourself need to address. Because you are allowing them to use you.

I wouldn't get that far along with someone if I didn't think if they weren't honest and had good values. Sometimes when you are generous and then things don't work out you can feel used but in fact the other person had no I'll intent. Its only natural for someone to take what is offered. Like I said I'll make more money, I would rather lose than to not be my true giving self. I haven't been in a lot of relationships but finances has never been the reason for breaking it off

Yup! Exactly what an ex said to me, @jameson. That all worked swimmingly -- until the breakup. Even though I worked all through the relationship and contributed a greater percentage of my salary to our joint account than my partner, boy did that whole "I don't care what you make" change when we broke up. Suddenly, the fact that my partner made more and worked more hours was crucially important and it determined how we "divided" jointly purchased furnishings.

That experience has no influence on my long-established choice to choose people with middle+ incomes.

I guess I've just been lucky. I've never had to fight over money with an ex. I guess that's why it's such a non issue for me. I can see where a bad experience might change that.

@Jameson For me, the two have nothing to do with each other. I will choose somebody who makes what I make or more.

In talking about my ex's "change of heart about money" after the breakup, well, that's the way the cookie crumbles. I'm a big girl and not relying on somebody else for my livelihood has served me well this long.

Absolutely, and too often we forget that. It is not only mental, physical and emotional but also fiscal.

Love that response, I have been homeless rather than in a situation I could not afford, and have never paid a bill late in my life.

Guys!! @twshield and Condor5, If a person has a good character, is honest, kind and caring, you shouldn't have these kinds of issues. Maybe I'm naive but I think you need to scrutinize how you are selecting your partners. It doesn't have anything to do with how much money they are making. There are users and takers, learn to identify them and avoid them! Sorry if I'm sounding tough, but you must accept some responsibility for these bad relationships.

@twshield, so if your ex made so much money, them having a high income didn't help with the success or failure of the relationship. I still contend, it's the character of the person. In regard to @Condor5 case, again the problem wasn't with her income, it was her!

No kidding, @condor5!

@twshield @beehappy

I will choose a person for me of upstanding character who is kind, thoughtful, mannerly, respectful, liberal, atheist, affectionate, loves animals and kids, financially responsible, has great communication skills, and a whole bunch of other things and WHO ALSO earns a comfortable middle class or above salary. I don't have an exact number -- that part is not important for me to try to figure out today.

The way I want to live and how money factors into that is just the way I want to live. Some people are absolutely happy and content living on next to nothing and I absolutely respect them for their choices for their lives.

Similarly, I would not choose to somebody who "doesn't like to travel" and for damn sure will never again choose somebody who "doesn't like board games."

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- I may very well be single the rest of my life. And, I am perfectly okay with that.

@BeeHappy I never said, or intended to imply that I bore no responsibilty in the whole affair. There are 2 sides to every story; a notion I fully understand. And if you think I have problems relating to women, you're absofuckinglutely right I do. I probably wouldn't be in this group if I didn't. And that's no aspersions casting on any male in this group; I'm talking about me alone.OK? Just sayin'. And besides, I thought the gist of the post was focusing on $$$, not choices of companions. My bad. I guess I opened it up when I didn't specifically answer the question.

@BlueWave Sweetheart, if I was only 15 years younger...you seem like you make good choices.

I apologize for the assumptions. I don't often get on a rant but I do become passionate about some things and many people do not see that there are two sides to a relationship/ breakup. I see that you do, so again I apologize.

@BeeHappy no apology necessary, Bee. As I said I have some trouble expressing myself to women, sometimes. No harm, no foul.

Thank you, but if I'm out of line, I have to set it straight.

@BeeHappy darlin' I'm always walking that fine line.

@twshield That's kind of you to say.

@Condor5 I try. Like I said earlier, I got a late start on getting smart about money, but I try to stay on my game these days!

ain't that the truth.

I could have written your post @marga. One of my biggest regrest/sadnesses is that I didn't have the means for the sports, extracurriculars, sleep-away camps, art classes, etc. for my daughter.

@BlueWave Yes, it hurts to see them do without what all their friends have, and made them outsiders in some ways, because they couldn't afford to join their friends on all this stuff. It also placed them at a disadvantage as far as skills, talents, etc., because I didn't have the money to help them develop what abilities they had.

flip side, I have been a single dad since 1993, yes my kids missed out on many things but we ddi what we could. My son's personal motto is "poverty builds character"

@twshield I have not in the past, but after my recent experience, will do so in the future. Unless I win the lottery, but ya gotta play to win. LOL! I don't.

@twshield Too often you still lose if you play and it has been shown those that do 'win' often lose by going bankrupt.

@twshield The financial immaturity that got them to buy the tickets doesn't change after they've won. Also, they find out they have lots more relatives then they thought.

I like your answer, well-thought and pragmatic.

I have a couple of ex's that contributed a lot less to the household than I did and even left me in debt after it was over. Never again

yeah, as long as the person does not impact negatively.

@twshield, if they've been burned, hopefully they have learned from it. I still maintain it doesn't have anything to do with their income but more to do with their character.

@twshield LMFAO! That's an excellent point, but, sweety, if you can't buy most of the nice things you want for yourself, then we aren't going to work out. I'm totally up front in my lack of disposable income when I start talking to a woman. When you decide you want to talk to me, me is pretty much all you get, and if that isn't enough for you, no hard feelings, I know I'm not much as far as resale value is concerned.