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Do you think the religious *really* believe?

Deep down, do you think most religious people really believe what they are peddling? Or, do you think there is a lingering fear or knowledge that they are wrong?

I think people who get "possessed" or the holy rollers that throw themselves onto the ground or those that hear voices... they must know they are acting. Right?

I also hypothesize that the ones most insecure in their beliefs are also the ones that scream it into the hills and wear it on their sleeves. Like, they are looking for confirmation.

These are just my own thoughts on the matter. Yours?

silvereyes 8 Feb 26
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Some of them, definitely yes. Those pastors who knock people over with the power of Jeebus must know they're just pretending, playing on the gullibility of the audience. It's plausible to think that their congregations must know the exact same thing, and are just trying to convince themselves of their magic sky daddy's might.

Deep down, I think all humans have some form of critical thinking skill. Whether or not it's stifled, it's still there.

Even the more moderate believers are partially motivated by fear. I've got two Catholic friends. They're TERRIFIED of not believing. Every time we have a discussion on the issue, they either get aggressive or they plead with me to stop, because they cannot contemplate a world in which there is no god. Suppressed knowledge that it's wrong or open terror that it might be. Which is worse?

@silvereyes Pascal's Wager. No matter how half-arsed it is, it keeps resurfacing.

@JosephHarrison It's a simple idea for the simple minded. Imagine a heaven full of simple minded people.

@Gilda It's not even 50/50, because there are so many gods. That's how I respond; what if you're wrong, and Allah is real? What if you're wrong, and you must actually die a warrior's death to gain access to Valhalla, or Elysium? Until one claim stands out above others, Pascal's Wager isn't even valid.

0

"I think people who get "possessed" or the holy rollers that throw themselves onto the ground or those that hear voices... they must know they are acting. Right?" Not the one's I've known...including my past self.

@silvereyes Yes, I know very well what you're talking about. I couldn't count the number of meetings/services I was in which fairly fringe into that territory, if not outright embrace it.

The line between conscious vs. unwitting choice to fall (not throw per se—at least in the usual meetings I was in) becomes very hard to tease apart in these kinds of settings. You have others falling around you; your emotions are high; you believe it's something absolutely great to experience—indeed a pinnacle of your Christian experience!; you're told that it is something the Spirit does through you; and unlike with watching say Benny Hinn, when it happens to you it's not usually obvious that that was the moment you would go down, so you don't have good reason to feel it was caused by "man".

I can understand how you can't fathom it, I don't blame you. If it seems incomprehensibly bizarre, that's because it is—until you've actually experienced it (not unlike one's view of sex—before actual sex).

But a supernaturalistic worldview + brainwashing + group psychology + desperation = a recipe for just about anything to happen and you interpret it in any way you're told—double that, if you're still a child! So no, I didn't know it was me and only me speaking in tongues or giving prophecies or praying for the sick or getting "slain in the Spirit" (euphemism for falling/flying down). I was told, in no uncertain terms, that it couldn't be me; that it must be the Holy Spirit and only the Holy Spirit, through which I was able to do them. (That, or an unclean spirit, if I didn't have my heart right! [OMG!! Don't be sinning!] But still, NEVER me myself.)

@silvereyes I'm glad! Since that was part, I think, of what you wanted to get out of your original question. 🙂

When I was young, I could not imagine adults buying into the fantasy garbage they were feeding us. I thought the entire church things was just a mind game to mess with youth and control them. I thougth church was just live fantasy theatre and the adults secretly knew were aware of this. It wasn't until my 20's before I realized so many adults never grew up and actually believed the garbage they were peddling. This cold realization diminished my optimism for our country's future.

@NoMagicCookie Recognizing this to be true of both my past self, many intelligent people who I love, and not an insignificant portion of humanity, has similarly darkened my perspective.

Exhibit A: Think right now how our own government is honoring a man for little more than making people a bit happier through believing narratives little more real than fairy tales!

0

I do not think you are correct at all...there is great joy in "ecstasy" akin to a really good drug high...enjoyable and addicting. That is why it is Impossible to reason with the most religious among us....like trying to wean a meth head with statistical recitations.

5

I think if they truthfully believed, they would be ready to die. They wouldn't fight so hard to stay alive. Chemo, surgeries, radiation, medications, exercise, eating healthy; they would be ready to go to heaven if they really believed.

I have addressed this many times. Don't allow Death with Dignity because it is unnatural and goes against ( a ) god's plan. But it's okay to take any and all measures to extend life. The religionists say they can't wait to meet Jesus, just not yet!.

It would seem that Billy Graham certainly wouldn't have desperately held on to life for 99 years if he had really believed the BS he was spouting to others

14

Yes, for the most part I think the average believer does really believe.

But the loud mouth, hypocritical tel-evangelists, I think are in it for the money and will say whatever they think will help line their pockets. The only thing they believe in, is themselves.

Very valid points!

A”believer” believes by definition!

A better question would be if those who claim and/or ACT like they believe, indeed believe as much as they claim to...

As a person who is employed by the church , I certainly act like I believe, even though I thoroughly DO NOT believe!

As for the rank and file members (even clergy), I think you will be surprised at the range, degree and variations of belief in any church..,

I always like to suggest people google SALVATION by Langston Hughes, for a good personal description of how children can deal with the pressures to believe, or at least “go along with the program” of belief in the church, and the actions you are pressured into taking (and talking!)...

I quickly left the church rather than stay and compromise.
But I know there are adults that shamelessly compromise their beliefs, words and actions, as they see fit!

My pastor father, priding himself on scientific literature and logical thinking, just didn’t share the ignorant fundamentalist beliefs many in his congregation held...

2

I agree with you, but I also believe there are many "true believers," who are fully duped.

The ranks of the religious are are filled with hypocrites. My guess is most of the hypocrites are religious leaders who know exactly what they are doing. They are the lowest of the low, manipulating/controlling others to improve their own fortunes. There are many believers who are so indoctrinated, so brainwashed, that they will NEVER question. I have a close friend I have known since HS. Back then, we were both believers, but our paths diverged greatly. This person is no idiot, but in this, he blindly follows and believes. For me, it's frustrating as we will never have common ground in this area and have "agreed to disagree" on the subject of religion/faith. We just don't go there.

2

I believe that most Christians are gambling that their religion is true.

With odds like las Vegas lottery, that they go to heaven.

0

I have wondered that too. It is difficult to believe that people really believe in a book about talking donkeys, talking snakes,and flying chariots. I think the culture of religion is the big influence. Most don't even know what they believe. I think it is all cultural heritage and pressure.

0

The human mind is a funny thing. People can convince them selves of almost anything. Even with glaring evidence to the contrary. This gets compounded when you have institutions that reinforce that belief system. Those institutions can easily become corrupt in order to support the power and influence of those in charge.

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I think most do believe. With that being said, what modern neuroscience is showing is that the brain is more of a Congress and different parts win at different times.

I read about a study where they audio recorded people during a game. The game was rigged from some to lose and some to win. When the researchers played back the recording, people had trouble recognizing their own voice when they were in the losing conduction, but not in the winning conduction. That is pretty interesting in and of itself, but then they tested them with a skin galvanic test, which responds in a special way when you hear your own voice. The skin galavanic test showed that somewhere they were aware it was their own voice. How much is conscious is the question.

I don't remember where I read the study... Maybe "The Morale Animal". It was many years ago.

JeffB Level 6 Feb 26, 2018
3

Some believe some just hope

0

Yes. It is a delusion

0

The majority of them do not follow what they preach. They use the bible for convenience. They break all of the commandments that they claim were given by god for all mankind to follow. They pick and choose part of the bible that fits whatever their agenda is at the time, and any part of the bible does not fit their agenda, they change the meaning of it to make it fit.

0

I think most of them WANT to believe. They have been so brainwashed with the guilt and fear of their actions they are willing to go along with just about any nutty, hair brained idea. Don't put obstacles in their path because it means they will have to think and actually do something but their confusion only adds to their fear of doing the wrong thing.

0

Most believers live their life as if there is no god. They commit actions which under their own religious codes of conduct are wrong, yet they do not even realise or care for the most part

2

Some of them do. The more intelligent, educated, and exposed to different ideas people are, the more likely they are to question their beliefs. Whatever those beliefs might be...

I think the, "possessed", and proselytizers are driven by fear and insecurity. They may not be self aware enough to realize it. So they are looking for acceptance and confirmation. Don't underestimate the power of denial. I learned in grad school that denial means I don't even know I am lying...

1

I believe that my best friend completely buys into his Catholicism and it seems to control his life beyond common sense and to the point that it makes him a single issue voter, which to me is the worse kind. It has caused him to vote for people that would violate the Constitution to enact religious laws that he feels should rule the country. It has caused a severe rift in our friendship and I do not know if it will ever be the same.

0

I think people are people and knowing that there are many possibilities but it's not easy climbing into someone's head.

0

People abuse religion like any other drug, and, like other addicts, will say anything to justify their heavy usage

0

I think they want to believe it for various reasons - some have and continue to do horrible things and like to believe they've been forgiven, the "God's will" aspect removes personal responsibility for actions and decisions and rich people believe they're rich because god sees them as superior and poor people are being tested for the ultimate reward that awaits them for knowing their place as inferiors.

0

No they don't. Or they would never visit a hospital. That's why they want so bad for other people to believe as they do. To validate their ignorant beliefs. They want so bad for it to be real I think because most of them are afraid of Dying. Can you imagine the fear people would feel if they knew God to be real. They would never sin or try to own anything. They would live like the lie they are telling us to live. I think part of it may be that the church gives them a sense of belonging because they were raised in that environment so to leave the church would almost be like losing family but to belong they have to play the part. They all know but none of them will be the one to say this is stupid

0

Maybe similar to the supposedly religious preachers who fervently protest gay rights and are then exposed to be gay themselves, there are people who present themselves as devout believers who don't really believe at all.

0

I think that many get/stay involved with religeon, especially Christianity is because they want/need to believe in something/one more powerful than they are.
Someone to dump on when they pray or from whom to ask for the varsity team's victory, or when they do something wrong, to beg forgiveness from... Then they group up with those of the same mind and try to bring others in to their group. Those not in the group are damned. The damned go to hell. Those not in hell yet are the enemy who may recruit from them or create other non-believers and must be stopped. Change laws to make sinning illegal, incarcerate them...
Do they really buy this? I think they have themselves convenced that they do and if not, they can be forgiven over and over.
It's like a club where they all believe in the same lie, support one another and have an "expert" to tell you how to interpret their book and pamphlets and dogma and collect their money and build churches ever bigger and imposing to draw in more sheep, to explain how hate is a form of love...

0

I have family that truly believes everything that they have been preaching for years. They pray for me even as their children abandon there beliefs.

1

Whether they believe or not. I can't see why they love God, when they look at the world around them. I personally could not live among them or with God in Heaven. There seems to be a lot of questions about God and religion on this unbelieving website.

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