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As an atheist, I think Homosexuality should not come into mainstream. What's your take ?

No offence, but my opinion is homosexuality is psychological. I'm straight turned from homosexual, it all happened accidentally. I went through the studies, none had a proof that it's genetic. I've only one explanation to what happened with me & i.e. homosexuality is psychological.

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sourceofdesire 6 Nov 18

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I was going to be particularly scathing and probably offensive to you with my initial reply, but a quick look at your profile may has tempered my response somewhat now I have seen where you are from and how old you are.

You say in some of your replies that you do not want homosexuality to become mainstream in case it becomes normal and people are 'encouraged' to be homosexual. This appears to me to be a very nieve view that has been implanted by your social norms. People don't become homosexual because it accepted as normal. People come out as homosexual (or bisexual) because they feel safe to. Gay pride and other parades raise awareness and challenge the stereotyped perceptions of those less educated. In Europe, public perception has been changing over the years and there is less discrimination against LGBT groups year on year. There is still a long way to go, there are still people out there that think you can catch homosexuality or that it is a choice. Until we live in a world where people have equal rights under the law and are treated by their peers as equals, then marches and demos to bring this inequality into the mainstream must continue.

You are 19 years old and probably still exploring your sexuality. You live in a country where I believe the rights of the LGBT community are still in their infancy and culturally unacceptable - certainly if you were further north in Pakistan. Without protests and marches, women still wouldn't have the vote - feminism has been around for far longer and women still struggle to be treated as equals. Could you vote for No discrimination against women - but it shouldn't be in the mainstream?

Hang around the forum, listen to the sane and the crazy, and look at alternative sources for evidence. And keep asking questions.


First, a personal anecdotal experience always proves nothing. If you want my personal experience, 99 % of the men I meet have wives or girlfriends.
Secondly, who cares if it is genetic or not. We are not sure as to the biological causes. Even if it was just my choice, so what! i can choose to do whatever I want in life, and that includes sex.
Third, your claim of psychological and the numerous attempts from religious groups and psychologists and psychiatrists from past history, to "convert" gay people, has lead to numerous suicides and life long trauma.
Fourth, claims such as yours lead to violence against LGBT people. Bigots will use the idea that LGBT people can change, to hurt and kill us. I'll never forget in NY years ago, gay people were shot in a bar. As they carried one man out and was putting him in the ambulance, before he died, his last words were, "Oh no, now my family will find out."
And lastly, I have not only worked with many species of animals most of my life, but scientific research has shown that homosexuality exists in many thousands of species, even insects. Scientific studies also show that many of those who are homophobic, or who make wild claims such as yours, are closet cases, which most of us have always known anyway.
My life is not up for debate and is not dependent on your approval. You can only kick a dog so many times before it either dies, or turns on you.
And for anyone stupid enough to vote that homosexuality should not be in the mainstream, we are everywhere. We are your doctor, your teacher, your neighbor, and your old unmarried auntie who has that "special" friend, providing each other with "companionship."

sourceofdesire, there is something very wrong with your statement. Tell me what I can do to get you into bed? If you say nothing, and I was attracted to you, do you think I'm going to waste my time on you? And if you think that homosexuality is so wonderful and great that I can do something to convert "straight" men, tell me the secret. It is obvious that you fear your own sexuality and the fear that you will give in to your desires. I find that very sad but it is your business, just as what I do with my dick is my business.

When I was in high school, I had a girlfriend. We dated for a few years. We made out a lot but never actually had sex. We are still good friends and she is married to one terrific lady. My wife and I both enjoy their company.

Absolutely superb answer !

@MrAgnostic might I suggest that of you have an interest in transgender women that you not use a word that is considered a slur? Also, this looks like the wrong thread to ask on.

@miffy sorry, was in a diferent state of mind. Let's say such a desire has happily been satisfied.


Your view is stunted. Between Man and Woman there are 1000 places.
As a farmer I have seen hermaphrodite birth, homospecific behaviour and many combinations.
Do not condemn those who do not meet your particular understanding.

Thank you Shamancro. Anyone who has been around animals knows that the spectrum of sexuality exists in many species.


why would atheism be connected to this issue?

btroje Level 9 Nov 18, 2017

no kidding. not an issue for most people. this is 2017.

I think he was saying that he thinks homosexuality is a disorder despite being an atheist. He came to his conclusion by his own research rather than taking the word of a god.

In this respect, I am afraid that you are right. Even today, in the year 2018, there are still far too many people on earth, including you, who believe they should care about what others do in their bedrooms.

@Funeralgirl Don't kid yourself Their's a large percentage of screwed up people out here still. You may have noticed Trumpee got elected.

@freespiritflash you're right.


As far as I'm concerned, it's no one's business what sexual orientation a person is as long as they are consenting adults


heterosexuals or whatever element that is representative of the dominant culture do not have to announce themselves. when people have been oppressed or suppressed for whatever reason at a point they need to speak up and validate themselves

@sourceofdesire So, you're of the "don't ask don't tell" mentality. This country has something called freedom of speech. My daughter (and all other gays) should be able to go out in public arm and arm with her girlfriend. My daughter should also be able to march in a parade with other like-minded people (or by herself is she so desires) to let the bigots know that they are out there. If she wants a gay cake baked she should be able to have it bakes. Bottom line, homosexuality is NOT a dirty little secret that need to be kept under wraps.

source of desire I reread your comment and have to reply again.Heterosexuals announce themselves at almost every opportunity available. just look at the media.


I don't agree with you at all.

I 2nd with you. Why should it matter on sexual orientation? Lee Scott AirForceNurse1 in Clovis, California


Live-and-let-live. Treat others the way you want to be treated.

@sourceofdesire , but who is invasive? I never had a gay parade march through my living room. No one ever expected me to behave in a homosexual way. There was quite a lot of expectation, however, that I do behave in a heterosexual way. There are periods in my life where I don't feel very sexual at all. Neither hetero nor homo, just no desire. And while this it not exactly talked about much in mainstream, it is not as if anyone invades my privacy demanding that I explain my lack of sex. Each to their own. i don't care how one expresses his sex drive, as long as no one gets hurt.


Genetics may or may not play a role — that remains undetermined, as I understand it — but it's been established that the mother's hormones and antibodies play a significant role in male homosexuality. (I forget the specifics, but the gist is that her body sees male fetuses as a foreign body and produces antibodies that result in neutralizing the testosterone, and the more boys she has the greater the chances that each subsequent one will be gay.) My question for you is what prompted you to subject yourself to conversion therapy? If you don't believe in God or religion, why undergo treatment? For something you wouldn't have considered sinful? And even if it we're psychological, what is your objection to others being gay? Why does that matter to you? For what it's worth, psychologists consider conversion therapy dangerous and ineffective, and even many practitioners of conversion therapy admit that it doesn't actually change orientation but rather they claim that it helps control/suppress the behavior associated with the orientation. I would be interested in learning more about the research/study you did that convinced you that sexual orientation is purely psychological.

You note about the mother's hormones is interesting as both my son's are straight while my daughter is gay.

@kiramea: That's interesting. The sad fact is that female homosexuality hasn't received nearly the study that make homosexuality has, so less is known about things like hormonal influence in utero. I knew a woman years ago who has two sisters who are both gay, and one is more on the femme side while the other is far more butch (are those even the current terms? If I'm using antiquated terminology, I don't mean to offend). I always found that interesting, though I don't know if it points to anything significant in terms of lesbian development.

@sourceofdesire: Can you go into more detail about your experience? Nothing graphic, but for what ages did you identify as gay? Were you sexually active? Did the same-sex attraction end when you met someone of the opposite sex? I'm just confused by the abrupt nature (as you're fairly young) of these changes, and you're the only person I've ever heard of who experienced such a significant change by accident. People who are older sometimes go through a late-in-life change, though I'm unsure if that's entirely hormonal or how much is known about it, but at 19 or younger I'm unfamiliar with other cases like yours except in the cases in which people feel great shame or guilt about who they are. I think back to when I was 19, and the idea that I could have just slipped from heterosexual to homosexual just isn't realistic. That's not to say there aren't some psychological aspects to sexual orientation, but we're usually talking about sexual trauma in those cases as I understand it, and it doesn't sound like that's you experience. The other question I have is, even if homosexuality we're entirely psychological as you think, why would it matter if other people are gay — whether through direct choice or a psychological condition? You seem to object to others having a homosexual orientation, but why? How is this harmful? What stake do you have in their sexual relationships? I feel like it would be akin to me saying that I'm a vegetarian, then deciding that I'm really not a vegetarian and that I love bacon, and then declaring that nobody else should be a vegetarian. Others' dietary decisions don't affect me, and others' sexuality doesn't affect me. Why does homosexuality in others bother you or need to be suppressed in society in your view?


Please clarify your question. Are you suggesting that homosexuals should be discriminated against, because if you don't think they should be in the mainstream that is what you're doing. Would you explain how you accidentally became heterosexual?

Love the question, but can only think of comedy answers . . To be honest I don't think Id want to read any non comedic answers. (also. excuse the pun but in a 2 line joke the line that precedes the "Punch line" is called the "Straight line" - how ironic in this context)

@sourceofdesire Yes, I read you loud and clear now. Heterosexism and homophobia are prevalent in your culture.


Straight turned? Now that's were conditioned to change who you are...instead of just being yourself..the crazy christians do this...they try to reprogram their children by sending them to gay to straight camps.. Pray the gay away...being gay is not a either are or your not...I myself am bisexual..and I can't stop being attracted to certain woman..I just am...homosexuality has been around for millions of's in nature...animals have displayed this...Maybe you were Bisexual..or bi-curious..tried it a few times with the same sex and came to conclude you like or enjoyed the opposite sex more...


What's my take? My take is that you're a bigot. It's none of your business who someone else loves.

Wrong. Hate hurts all of us.

@Atheopagan do you hate bigots? Or do you call the hate polite disdain, or a sincere wish they could be enlightened like we are?

The only thing we should not tolerate as a society is intolerance. See the work of Karl Popper in the 1940s. []


I am not a homosexual and I don't really understand homosexuality. Still, I see no reason to discriminate against homosexuals. Are you sure that your motivation is not a desire to feel better than some other group?

You are fighting an uphill battle here. Sexual diversity IS and will be. Sexual expression is as diverse as every individual on this planet and always will be. If you start to look at the different things people do with their sexuality , same sex attraction is one of the least deviant forms of that if you want to consider the word deviant.Observing and learning about the world may be more beneficial than trying to rope in the universe


Homosexuality and/or bisexuality is naturally present in many animal species. On the other hand, bigotry against homosexuals appears to be unnatural, as it is only present in humans. We are in no danger of dwindling populations any time soon. In fact, we're alarmingly overpopulated. So, an increase in homosexuality would probably be good for the planet and humanity in that it could help slow population growth. If you're afraid that you can't stop being homosexual, that's understandable because of our heteronormative culture, but you're choosing to be part of the problem instead of being part of the solution. So let's not pretend that there is a valid argument for 'concern' over the 'spread' of homosexuality.

Very very well said! I agree 100%!


You can think what you like about homosexuality, but science, which deals in unbiased facts, shows that homosexuality is a normal, natural, and common aspect of many species. The LGBTQ community will not be pushed into the shadows and background of society to sate the raging insecurity of others' ignorance. Not anymore.


I've probably said this before, but it bears repeating. Homosexuality is naturally occurring in over 1,500 species besides humans. It already is "mainstream". It has been common throughout history. Just because someone may think it's "icky", doesn't make them correct, and it doesn't give them the right to dismiss, or otherwise disrespect, anyone because they're gay. It's not a "lifestyle choice". It's not a "choice" at all. Did you (general 'you' ) CHOOSE to be heterosexual? At what age did you decide that you are attracted to the opposite gender? Were you actively recruited by a straight person to "join"? It is NO different for those who are born homosexual. People are what they are. I don't understand the irrational fear of homosexuality. I never will. I will also never understand why some people think other people's sex lives are any of their business. This subject is a real sore spot for me. Rant over. For now. I'm sure it'll come up again.

Human sexuality, & all that implies; psychology, emotion, culture, sex, etc., etc., is incredibly complex. I'm an old fart, so I don't know if I totally buy into the notion of all these different "sexes" that seem to be sprouting up, but I have always realized that there is no one definition for either male or female behavior or sexuality. I'm a "straight" male, with many cultural "biases" from the '60's & '70's (& even earlier imprinted on me by my parents & culture), but that time of "sexual revolution" also helped open my eyes to the variety that exists. Bottom line, for me, at any rate, is "consenting adults". Anything else is repressive.

@phxbillcee Absolutely agreed. As long as everyone is a consenting adult, it's no one's business what they're doing with their sex lives.


I don't have any sort of personal stake in what two people do together as long they are consenting adults.
In fact, no one does except the people involved.

@sourceofdesire I hadn't heard of that. Are these schools trying to make kids homosexuals?


Homosexuality is a normal part of sexuality. It would be abnormal to find a society in which none exists. But, even if it were a matter of choice, which I do not think it is, as long as people are consenting adults, who does it harm?

sourceofdesire: I did not choose to be straight, and I do not believe people choose to be homosexual. Someone can choose to not act on their feelings--but that is not the same. I do not think we will see an increase in people "becoming" homosexual--only an increase of people no longer denying their natural feelings as more and more people are realizing that there is nothing wrong with being gay.


1 in 20 humans have different preferences than the rest. Wot's the big deal? as trudeau senior said many moons ago" the nation has no place in people's bedrooms"


Same sex attraction is not contagious. It is not an aberration. There have been people who felt attracted to same sex partners, whether casual or as dedicated partners since the dawn of mankind. You cannot legislate morality or interpersonal attraction.


We evolve as time moves forward. Just about anything will come into mainstream. If it offends you - move on.

Alright. I said just about anything will come into mainstream. Absolute anarchy! Look around. Different cultures with their mainstream. Who knows what tomorrow will bring. Korea's mainstream of things. We will never all come together as a whole humanity. Thats one world dictatorship. Mainstream of things does not need approval. It becomes. It happens. It exists. Mainsteam is not everybody agreeing that things don't happen. People would be surprised about whats mainsteam in different cultures. How about female genital mutilation. That happens in numerous countries. How about circumcision of baby boys. Are you hear to pick a fight with our culture? Do you really belong here? Whats your mainstream here? You feel insulted? Stop with your personal questions that your want to criticize others for their answers.

to source of desire : pedo , rape , animal rape have been and still are in some cultures widely spread but they all result in harm to somebody . there is a victim! lgbtq 's cause have no victims as everyone is consenting. GOT IT

Hmmm... its getting rough in here. Mainstream in a culture. When i was in Vietnam. Parents sent their children out to bring home money. Did the children become abused, yes. Did they want to do this, no. I did not approve this. Yes, they were exploited. Was it excepted in their culture. It appeared to be. The same in 2 other countries i toured. Gays and the young and the older knew that it was a way to make money. Big money for them. They hung on the fence waiting to ask the GI's the question. I don't agree with what I've seen around this world. I don't know about all the stateside cultures. But i can't solve it either. I just move on.


Thought this was a wind-up at first. My daughter and niece, openly gay, contribute massively to society, pay loads of tax. get promoted according to their abilities and serve the country well. Sounds pretty mainstream to me. Mindst you - they don't live in India. So I guess there are cultural factors.

@sourceofdesire I'm gonna say this for everyone, because sometimes in the struggle for EQUALITY, JUSTICE, FREEDOM, AND SOCIAL PROGRESS for ALL PEOPLE, some noses have to be bloodied. And, given your username (suspiciousl) I'm sure you will understand when I say this to you: FUCK YOURSELF!

@PaganSoul Great response!


You write: Honestly, I don't care what people do in their bedroom, but I fear there are or maybe attempts to convert straight into gays.

Don't you realize that this is complete bullshit? If you don't care what people do in their bedroom, why would you have to FEAR there are or maybe attempts to convert straights into gays. Even if there were such attempts, where's the problem?

Of course some people are more or less bisexual, and some of them may be "seduced" to homosexual actions while they may normally tend to heterosexual behaviour. But that is their own business, and not yours.


9% of all species are gay. Or at least that is what I was told. Whether it is psychological or physiological I can't say. If two people are happy to be with each other and were lucky enough to find each other in this world. I say more power to them, leave them alone to enjoy each other. Key phrase leave them alone. Their relationship is none of my business.


To sourceofdesire:
One of the things about progress is becoming more open to alternative modes of existence. You don’t have to agree, but you need to live and let live.


Homosexuality is historically shown in all cultures. It’s even tolerated in most. Accept it, forget it and move on with it. It doesn’t concern anyone but the people practicing it.

Some people have no life so they have to focus on the lives of others. And there's no such thing as "encouraging homosexuality". It's either accepted or not. No one can be "encouraged" to become gay.


Sure, there's a psychological aspect to it, but you shouldn't let your opinion of what you want be influenced by what other people think of as normal... that's fucking silly.

To discuss the psychological i would say this. I have always been pretty straight, i'm not sure why, when i was younger i absolutely remember looking at voluptuous ladies and thinking 'what in the hell is so exciting about that?' and then i was excited about it and it was intense and i didn't know why.
As i became more comfortable with bisexuals and gay people (and drugs! lol) i began experiencing moments of... lets call it appreciation for male beauty. Recently i found myself very attracted to a guy i work with occasionally. It's never happened to me before and it didn't work out, but it didn't spin my head around or anything, i still think he's super cute and i still think about girls.

But yeah, i very seriously doubt that you somehow changed your entire sexuality after reading studies, and this has nothing to do with agnosticism or atheism...

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