They are idiots. They wrote on the walls that the Israelis were as bad as the Nazis when I was there 40 years ago. Unfortunately the Chasidim have grown in numbers but most Jews in Israel could care less about religion.

It was like that in the 60s here and it was awful. I don't know if you have ever heard Hancock's half-hour on a boring Sunday but it illustrates perfectly how mind-numbingly dull Sundays were.

@273kelvin I remember Sundays when a everything was closed and I find it wonderful. Only people with no family, friends or imagination would find it boring and dull, he, he.

@Jolanta I can remember when every Sunday Dad would pile the family into the car and we'd all go for a ride out into the bush, run around barefoot in a creek, cook sausages over a campfire, drink Billy Tea and just relax and unwind together.
Then, when the bush Pubs had opened up, usually around 4.00pm we'd stop at one of them on way back, have a Pub Raspberry and a packet of chips while Dad sat on the veranda with his nidi of beer and had a yarn with the other blokes sitting there.
None of the bigger shops were ever open on a Sunday, just the corner shops to sell the Sunday papers and necessities, Pubs closed until 4.000pm then opened until 6.00pm for what was known as the " 6 O'clock Swill crowd," those were the really good days I reckon.

Yep, in Texas we have something called the "Blue Law" - designed to restrict certain activities on Sunday. When I was a kid the Blue Law was so strict, you could buy nails on Sunday, but not a hammer.

You would be surprised how Jews fight about a lot of things.

@OwlInASack Of course they do, but what does science and the facts have to say?

Plenty of jews agree that they are gods chosen people, too.

You would probably get your best answer from a Secular Jew about that. My limited knowledge is that Jewishness is related to matriarchal lineage and not related to religion.

Okay, a tomato is a fruit but you don't put it in a fruit salad.
Whatever science says about the DNA of this. Centuries of persecution have labeled Jews as a race. But I am sure that if you presented your case to the nazis when they came to round up your neighbors. You would have altered the course of history and saved so many lives. Shame that you were not there at the time.

@OwlInASack So having a lot of people in agreement makes a viewpoint correct? Like being christian or muslim? Cool story.

@273kelvin Several so called jews joined the nazis because, you know, they are just humans. Is nazi a race as well? You guys arent making any sense at all.

@OwlInASack if its only a cultural preference, then my point is proven correct. The claim of being a jew is not a separate race of humans. Just like saying youre african or jamaican. It is indeed a cultural claim, I agree. The cultural claim is based on a religion, duh.

Where is the argument?

Jews originated as an ethnic and religious group in the Middle East during the second millennium BCE,[9] in the part of the Levantknown as the Land of Israel.[22]

Abraham is known as the patriarch of the Israelite people through Isaac, the son born to him and Sarah in their old age and the patriarch of Arabs through his son Ishmael, born to Abraham and his wife's servant Hagar.

Abraham[a] (né Abram)[b] is the common patriarch of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and other religions.[1] In Judaism, he is the founding father of the covenant of the pieces, the special relationship between the Hebrewsand God; in Christianity, he is the prototype of all believers, Jewish or Gentile; and in Islamhe is seen as a link in the chain of prophetsthat begins with Adam and culminates in Muhammad.[2]

HELLO Abraham is not real!! Its just a religious claim. Secular jew is a misnomer.

@OwlInASack

That's just your typical douchebag opinion. I gave my opinion. I did not ask for yours. swallOwinASack.

@OwlInASack I didn’t say anything about anything or anyone being wrong unless I misunderstood your post.

The israel myth comes from the exodus book of the bible. The exodus story is not real. The torah did not even exist when the exodus claims to have happened.

There is no evidence for the exodus of any kind. The torah stories did not happen. The land jews claim they came from was ruled by Ramses II during that time of the so called exodus. Theres no way tens of thousands of people roamed the heavily populated middle east without it being recorded by archeology or history.

People who claim to be jews are either just Egyptians or are some other mixture of middle eastern, if even that. Because jewish is just a religion. If it is a culture, which I guess it is, its also probable that its entire identity is completely made up from creation myths. Which makes it even moreso a religion.

@Jolanta I live in a predominantly Jewish area, so I know that. All types, and a few ex jew Atheists in our local secular group. ...and mosques, synagogues and churches are in close proximity of each other and all eat, shop, do business in the same area peacefully.
...when I drive through certain areas, they'll be walking, pushing their kindergarten in prams etc they fill the mall queues on Friday afternoon ready to be locked-up after 6 lol and fill the shops again on sunday mornings after their feast . They'll definitely object to shops closed on Sundays and then again so will I I say take your holidays when you wish to, leave the shops open.

@BryanLV Dosen't mean that it is so, after all most people would love to be CHOSEN, but chosen for what or by whom. If there is no god then stop bleating on about being chosen.

@Grahame Are races obvious? What makes up a race? Define race scientifically.

Ethnic background can be anything and include any skin pigmentation. Geographical origin the same, but neither makes you a separate race of human. There is only one known, living race of human.

Science acknowledges that race and differences in races are nothing more than social constructs. I'm eager for you to educate me to the contrary.

@Grahame Look, you coming onto a public forum and complaining of being offended is lame and weak. You have no right to not be offended. Just like I have zero obligation to withhold factual conversation to safeguard your feelings. Your retort is nothing more than you whining and hoping to stop logical dicourse. You have added no provable information to this topic.

Shame on you! You are the troll!

Crazy that I come to a place supppsedly full of skeptics and non-zealots, but I have to defend statements that creation myths are not real.

@OwlInASack Just remember swallowinasack. You started the insults here. Your insult was indirect and weak. I do not play that. I attack directly and with malicious intent. Because an attack is an attack.

Don't be a wimpy girly man who attacks and then runs and points the finger when the aggressed against retaliates with full force. Maybe try not insulting in the first place. Best advice I can offer.

@Grahame Not going any place. Not keen on people who enter discussions for the sole purpose of silencing viewpoints they dislike.

You're free to go away, but you're not the boss of me. Thank god! Haha

You might want to educate yourself and spend a day with someone like me. I am a secular Jew. I was raised Jewish up to the age of 13 . I started forming my own opinion regarding the Bible and found it was not believable. But there are wonderful traditions celebrated in Judaism based on family and not just the 613 commandments in the Bible. I don’t have to be religious to be a good Jew. I just have to be a good person- a mensch. Based on your conversations with others that have not been so nice, I’m going to make an observation that you do not know a lot about Jews and Judaism and have been stuck in your mind with stereotypes of Jewish people.

@bklynite53 You did not answer any of my questions. I still hold the same views. You told me I need to educate myself, yet failed to offer even one shred of rational input showing how the claim of being jewish is anything more than a religious claim.

What makes you a jew outside of claiming to be? If its just a claim, its a religion. I would start by educating yourself on the numerous meanings of the word religion.

You're welcome.

@bklynite53

Jew

/jo͞o/

noun

a member of the people and cultural community whose traditional religion is Judaism and WHO TRACE THEIR ORIGINS through the ancient Hebrew people of Israel to ABRAHAM.

sec·u·lar

/ˈsekyələr/

adjective

denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have NO religious OR spiritual basis.

........How do you reconcile the fact that there is zero evidence that Israel and the historical character known as Abraham ever existed?

Seems like a rather large oversight, no?

@BryanLV It is as much a cultural claim as a religious one. I don’t think we are a race as idiot trump proclaimed . It would take way too much writing which I hate to explain cultural to you. But if I ever get up to vegas we could have lunch and I will tell you all about it. I should be there in February again.

@BryanLV forget Abraham and all the Bible stories. It is a historical fact that Rome conquered Jerusalem which was inhabited by Jews. The diaspora is a historical fact. I am not going to get into this with you on here as my time is to valuable to spend arguing. Like I said when I am in Vegas in feb. I’d be happy to have lunch with you and have a real conversation.

@bklynite53 i have already agreed in this thread that it is a cultural claim. There are tons of cultures, rap culture, supremacist culture, gang culture, Khardashian culture. If thats all that jewish is, a claim of culture, i.e., a religion, then we agree. Being jewish is just a claim, not a race.

Which means upon denouncing religion, if one is honest, should also denounce jewish culture as a religious claim for consistencies sake.

Glad we agree.

@OwlInASack Yawn. Zero input again.

@Beowulfsfriend flippin hell

@Grahame you are entitled to your opinion, I wasn't trying to be helpful at all, and let me again reaffirm my contempt, FUCK ALL RELIGIONS and will add to continue being even less helpful, AND FUCK ALL THOSE RELIGION SYMPATHIZERS! If I wanted to "help" I am sufficiently smart enough to express myself in a conciliatory manner. Obviously not the case here, dude!

@Grahame sorry, mate. Fuck all religions and all religion supporters.

@Mofo1953 My guy!

@NoPlanetB Yeah, that's the one thing that usually turns the tide--MONEY.
Funny how that works, ain't it?

@Beowulfsfriend everyday day should just be another day. No one should be restricted to do what they wish to do just because of a particular day.

Yeah, when they killed one another they used rocks and pointy sticks.

@KKGator As opposed to nukes? Or the Crusades, where the believers in one fairy tale killed another?

@Mitch07102 My point is that humans have never been very "civilized".
I've always found that to be a giant misnomer.

@KKGator Fair point. But I'd say we are less so now.

@Mitch07102 I know it definitely feels that way. You'd think we'd be "better", but we aren't.