Agnostic.com

34 7

Do u agree or disagree?

hypocrisy is unavoidable and necessary. If people were required, at all times, to live up to ideals of honesty, loyalty and compassion in order for those ideals to exist, there would be no ideals. Being a moral person is a struggle in which everyone repeatedly fails, becoming a hypocrite in each of those moments. A just and peaceful society depends on hypocrites who ultimately refused to abandon the ideals they betray

Rich177 5 June 22
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

34 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

7

Nonsense. Not everyone is a hypocrite, as you insist.

At age four, I realized when I am nice to people, they are nice to me.

Acting kind, honest, and moral is a series of daily decisions. It became a habit.

I have friends who are kind and good people. Hypocrites? No.

5

Wholeheartedly disagree. Hypocrites say one thing, and do another--they are liars who can never be trusted.

In his powerful pocket-sized book, Lying, Sam Harris makes too much sense. When we lie, Harris says, "we deny others a view of the world as it is. Our dishonesty not only influences the choices they make, it often determines the choices they can make—and in ways we cannot always predict. Every lie is a direct assault upon the autonomy of those we lie to.”

Personally, I find that life is too short to be dishonest, or to spend time with hypocrites and deceivers. I prefer the company of honest men and women. Again, I agree with Harris: “Honest people are a refuge: You know they mean what they say; you know they will not say one thing to your face and another behind your back; you know they will tell you when they think you have failed—and for this reason their praise cannot be mistaken for mere flattery.”

And by the way, loyalty is an overrated virtue. For instance, is maintaining the thin blue line while allowing bad conduct, abuse and even murder, a moral good? Loyalty is earned every day, and must depend on the behavior of the one to whom one remains loyal.

In the case of forgiveness, which causes resentment, it can lead to a trap, where one is effectively blackmailed, not intentionally. Loyalty can be the rational course, even forgiveness and the strangeness of other peoples behavior as it can be unpredictable either way. When one understands that laws are really in the imagination and created in the mind of man one can decide to stand up for him/herself, a good example, the imaginary consequences of preventing george Floyd's murder, had one decided to take action and assault the officer to prevent George Floyd's death, what would have happened? The law of course would demand that the person be arrested for assaulting an officer. Anyway, we really don't know what would have happened, the fear of consequences imposed by the law enabled Floyd's death.

@Rich177 Forgiveness is an entirely seperate topic.

@p-nullifidian the relation is that people cherry pick laws that they follow, but by judging others become a hypocrite? For example, if a guy does drugs, he says, I'm not a violent guy. Or, a violent guy says, well I don't do drugs. Both are guilty before the law. Would it be hypocritical for them to judge?

@Rich177 I must admit that I am unable to follow your arguments.

@p-nullifidian in the same way people cherry pick the bible saying they hate gays but eat their pork, people cherry pick the laws where they live.

@Rich177 I see what you mean, now. So, other than breaking the speed limit, what laws do you think are the most 'cherry picked?'

@p-nullifidian probably drugs

4

"A just and peaceful society depends on hypocrites who ultimately refused to abandon the ideals they betray"
lol, i mean just listen to yourself man

Not my thoughts, found this online lol

@Rich177 ah then may i suggest quotation marks and a ref next time, for clarity.
can i ask what attracted you to that...that?

@bbyrd009 just trying to figure out myself. Not sure really, for clarity. Entrepreneurs are big on staying true to yourself. Hypocrisy is a betrayal of self?

@Rich177 or maybe revealing the self?

4

Only in a world that has come to rely on hypocrisy and lies, re-branding them as tact and diplomacy does this hold true.
When falsehood is compassion and when correction of error is politically incorrect because feelings are more important than facts we are living in a dishonest world, and the honest person is a deviant at best a criminal at worst

4

Hypocrisy stems from intent. An otherwise honorable person who fails occasionally in the everyday struggles of life is an imperfect being, not a hypocrite.
Morality is fluid to the times. The first thing that needs to happen in any society has to be an agreement on what those moral standards are. Hypocrites are certainly not essential to a "just and peaceful" society.
A more accurate statement might be, " law breakers are essential to feed the cash cow of the justice system."

3

Disagree.

howdy1 Level 5 June 22, 2020
3

Accepting that people are human and have failings is not quite the same as endorsing hypocrisy. The latter should be reserved for more serious breaches of behaviour. Not managing to keep to your diet is not the same as running for public office on an intolerant moralistic campaign ticket then getting caught sharing cocaine with call girls.

JoeB Level 6 June 22, 2020
3

Bunk! Being "moral" is an ideal that we strive for and morality is defined by the societal structure you live in. Your view seems to say we are all hypocrites because no one can be moral or ideal. That view would have to always produce failure.

True and correct, that is exactly why western society is collapsing and consuming itself.
Our society has been based on a social moral bankruptcy since the 1980s and has now become the norm.
Everyone takes offense at everything and calls it necessary freedom of expression, while at the same time using oppressive methods to silence detractors and claiming censorship is also a necessary freedom.
It is normal to place feelings over fact and so praising as brave and heroic the acts of the glutton and condemning his doctor for trying to save that same glutton's life for "fat shaming"
Racism is condemned while racists are lauded for being champions of free speech and at the same time racists are condemned while racism is lauded as essential to national security.
The police are given tanks and guns that could stop an elephant and then are condemned for using them, but when unrest happens and the police show restraint they are condemned for not behaving like a paramilitary.
The man who calls his obese friend fat is an abuser, but the man who calls his obese friend thin is an enabler.
Support an -ism and and you are a cuck, complain that an -ism goes to far in the other direction and you are a despicable ist-o-phobe.

Even be neutral on any subject and you are a part of the "problem"

Our society today worships hypocrisy, it thrives on word play and raising up up one section of society against another, with each opposing view having its 15 minutes of fame in the spotlight to be both praised and vilified, so that while children starve and people die of war and disease the public can safely ignore all of that while they decide which oppressed minority's loudest vocal whinging hypocrites are going to feature on the nightly sob story game show we call the news in a bid for attention and victim culture fame and fortune.

This is why we are as you say doomed "to always produce failure."

3

Hypocrisy is definitely not unavoidable and society does not depend on hypocrisy. Your statement is nonsensical and absolute bunk.

3

I don’t listen to hip hop.

2

hypocrisy is not a product of failure. Honest mistakes happen. Hypocrisy is a product of deceit or ignorance. Often failure is a prerequisite to success.

2

What is called morality in our system is unnatural and by definition impossible to achieve completely. Morality is instinctual and self-regulating. If allowed to 'play out' in a non indoctrinative and non abusive environment, it develops very well all by itself. Don't believe it? Have a chat with your dog.

2

I disagree...

I think it's more of a lack of discipline

1

Hm, I agree that hypocrisy is unavoidable at times due in part to some form of moral negligence, but to say that it is necessary is to imply that hypocrisy is a benefit when it is not. If you would elaborate on the necessity of a morally apprehensive decision that clashes with the alleged morals of the individual I might be able to better understand what it is u mean by necessary.

1

It is not hypocritical to do one's best.

1

This is an interesting feed for me since I’ve often struggled with my own hypocrisy ( which is in itself a product of ego...another discussion). I have no interest in others’ hypocrisy, though if it is blatant I tend to steer clear ( because judging theirs is, obviously, hypocritical.) and discussion of it is more arrogance and posturing than concern for society’s betterment. And when I say “struggled with” I mean it in the sense of self reflection...am
I the person I want in the world. Do I live my morality or merely speak it? It is not “ do I check the boxes of what I or society deans expedient at the moment?” (My person quandary has been about my consumption of animals given my belief in our equality, but I know that’s my issue, knowing that others’ don’t have that same perspective.) Ultimately we have to reconcile ourselves with these hypocrisies...stop them or accept them...to get through life without self loathing. And that is an ongoing struggle, not often a one-and-done, since growth is always fluid. And just a btw, I don’t see “ loyalty” as an attribute. More often than not, it requires not only hypocrisy, but the suspension of morality/ethics to support a hollow ideal.

Karuk Level 6 June 23, 2020

Go ahead, explain how hypocrisy is related to ego

1

Disagree

1

I think whoever you are quoting (without attribution) is confusing an honest aim for an ideal with a dishonest claim of having reached it.

1

Life’s a struggle to be honest with your inner set of scruples; which varies as life progresses. No ones perfect, but everyone rationalizes. Everyone will be a hypocrite resultantly. Not that this is a bad consequence. It’s just growth.

1

IMO we should not be striving to be a good, moral person. Such striving is inherently hypocritical.

Our behavior patterns spontaneously reflect the state of our inner awareness. We love because we can not help ourselves—it is a logical necessity.

Concentration on the duality of good vs. evil leads a person straight into contradiction. If you consider yourself “good”, and you are constantly looking for and judging others evil, you yourself are committing evil—you are spreading condemnation and hatred.

The great MLK wrote some amazingly penetrating essays on this very subject.

[agnostic.com]

"Do or do not. There is not try."
XD

1

Certainly honesty and compassion (and loyalty) are sometimes in conflict, but I don't see that this necessitates hypocrisy or even relativism. Rather I think it shows we can't consistently accept these as unconditional ideals.

1

Interesting line of reasoning.

1

I have come to believe that most things like the characteristics you mention exist along a continum rather than a black or white kind of scenario. Individuals we would describe as honest are honest most of the time, and the same would be true of loyalty, compassion, and other characteristics. I don't see this as an admission of hypocrisy as such when applied in general terms, and would generally reserve the label of hypocrite for greater disparity - the person who claims to be honest but lies regularly, or the person who claims to be moral but then engages in serious moral infractions.

1

Sounds reasonable and realistic to me.

0

Disagree. Silly statement really. If you want to aim for being moral and showing genuine concern for the well-being of others, your position should rather be, one of honesty and integrity, leading by example in the spirit of the golden rule. No hypocrisy of these ideals are required.

Mvtt Level 7 June 30, 2020
Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:508360
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.